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Unexpectedly. (They keep using that word). "(Reuters)-New single-family home sales unexpectedly fell in June, but a sharp rise in prices and declining supply suggested the market for new houses was starting to stabilize, a government report showed on Tuesday."
Weakening? (H/T Pat)
Wednesday, July 27, 2011
Northern Virginia Bits Bucket 7/27/2011
Posted by Harriet at 6:00 AM
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18 comments:
http://blogs.wsj.com/developments/2011/07/21/d-c-s-housing-market-exceptional-no-more/?source=patrick.net#blog_search_query
WSJ, is wondering if the DC market is starting to tank.
Cheryl:"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. "
pat,
What word?
Inconceivable. Maybe they should start using "inconceivably," because the oft-used "unexpectedly" is getting kind of stale.
How much do you want to bet that if NAR creates an index it claims prices didn't fall as much as the CS & corelogic. It will also claim prices are going up sooner and more...
NAR index
cheryl
my mistake i misattributed harriets statement to you.
CS has us down 26% from peak. Of course there is great variation among regions and neighborhoods - but that is the average. I've seen some places down 70% and others only 10%. I've been buying at an average of 50+%.
Do I think NAR will be vastly different? All one has to do is pull comps over the past 2-5yrs and you have your own data.
Question for the buyer's here:
How many of you go directly to the lister vs using a buyer agent? What goes into that decision?
VA-
As a buyer its very difficult to go directly to the lister. The only ways to see a house is either have an agent or go to an open house. Usually if you go to an open house without an agent the sellers agent will try and get two commissions. Also if you contact the sellers agent without an agent to try and put in an offer they will try usually try and get you to agree to have them represent you also.
So basically for the average person it is very difficult to see a house and put in an offer without having an agent. I wish this was not the case, because I think agents add very little value, but they have become ingrained in the system making it difficult to not use them. Although at least with companies like Redfin it is at least slightly less expensive to use an agent.
hb,
You don't need a buyer agent or to wait for an open to see a house if you contact the lister directly.
Yes, they will "double-end" it and will be a dual-agent, rather than "your" agent. Is the incentive for a double commission enough to give you a leg-up? That is the question. They may keep it "in-house" and assign another agent in the same office; for the sake of propriety. They receive a higher commssion from their office if the entire transaction is in-house.
If you need hand-holding or are worried that you are not getting the best deal by going to the lister, then you should have a buyer-agent. Frankly, I know the markets I am interested in and know a deal when I see it. If something is a great bargain, I go to the lister. It may get your offer accepted but it's a guarantee.
"not" a guarantee.
housebuyer said...
How much do you want to bet that if NAR creates an index it claims prices didn't fall as much as the CS & corelogic. It will also claim prices are going up sooner and more...
How much do I want to bet it will be manipulated and fraudulent just like their past five years of sales data? I'd bet the farm.
Va_Investor said...
How many of you go directly to the lister vs using a buyer agent? What goes into that decision?
I've given up approaching the seller's agent (or the seller) because they'd have to rewrite their agency agreement to accommodate my intentions of saving both the seller and myself a good amount of money. Their agent will in all likelihood fight this tooth and nail, and it's just not worth my time trying to battle a scumbag agent who has the luxury of being able to deceive their client and throw my offers in the trash without presenting them.
I am using my landlord, a PT agent, and he's kicking back 2/3 of the commission. I toyed with getting my RE license last year, even took the course, but didn't pursue it since it's hardly breaking through the cartel's barrier on the industry (and I'd sooner burn the $2500 in NAR dues than send it to those criminals).
Va_Investor said...
Yes, they will "double-end" it and will be a dual-agent, rather than "your" agent. Is the incentive for a double commission enough to give you a leg-up? That is the question.
The question is what's the difference between two scumbag agents splitting 6% versus one scumbag agent getting all of the 6% for doing no additional work? In principle, I'd never allow them the chance to double-dip like that. I find it wholly unethical and repulsive.
The only point in approaching them sans buyers agent is to get the total commission reduced to 3% which they can net themselves, same as if I had my own agent, and lower the sales amount a bit to save myself and the seller money. Agents will fight this, and they will likely kill any attempt made to reduce the net commission paid since it's an affirmation that their business is a racket.
My RE instructor said specifically that when it comes to renegotiating the agency terms to account for no buyer's agent that "it will never happen". I said well what if I make an offer contingent upon this renegotiation, which would be in the seller's best interests? She said she'd never present such an offer. I pointed out that she's obligated by her RE license to present all offers, and she quickly changed her tune to "I'd advise my client not to consider it".
In the end, these vermin will break the rules when they know they won't be caught. When they have to follow the rules, they'll use every sleazy trick in their bag to manipulate their client into doing what's best for their (the agent's) interests.
You can't win the game, but you can shame and expose them in front of a classroom of 30 aspiring agents so they know what kind of people they're going to be working with, or what type of person they might become.
If something is a great bargain, I go to the lister. It may get your offer accepted but it's [not] a guarantee.
Therein lies the problem. Bribing an agent so you can score a deal only empowers them, and it encourages them to act in unethical ways. I understand investors have to play this game to get the deals they want and that it might benefit them in the end, but you're bribing a scumbag to potentially act against their client's interests. I couldn't do that.
VA-
Yeah I agree you can give the seller agents 2 commissions although I don't know if that gives you enough of a leg up to compensate for the 1.5% back you get from using a redfin agent.
hb and kevin,
Sadly, until the gov't finally intervenes in the longest antitrust violation in history, your altruistist attititudes will cost you far more than 1.5%.
Kevin, your demand of 3% off is going to get you nowhere. I'd bet you would be alot more "work" than the average buyer. On the other hand, I am virtually no work and I don't care what the agent gets. I care only about what I pay. They can worry about their ethics. I've got the signed contract.
Sadly, until the gov't finally intervenes in the longest antitrust violation in history, your altruistist attititudes will cost you far more than 1.5%.
Agreed.
Kevin, your demand of 3% off is going to get you nowhere. I'd bet you would be alot more "work" than the average buyer.
Actually, quite the opposite. I don't play games with conveyances or contingencies, and I'm not into counter-offers. I don't play games at all and I'm not going to waste anybody's time, particularly my own, with gimmicks. I just need someone to open the door so I can take a peek, and I do a lot of research on the house before I decide to see it (I've only looked at about seven or so houses in the past four years, but have done some time-consuming research on well over a hundred).
kevin,
Your posts and attitude indicate that you would be "work". I don't know if you come off the same way when talking with lister's.
You miss the point. Unless you buy/sell many properties through the same agent, your low-ball commission will only result in your offer going in the circular file.
As for other discount agents; people should ask full price agent whether they treat these listings/offers the same.
VA-
There were definitely some people who did not treat the discount agents the same way. I ended up buying a new house where I did the entire process without an agent so the price was already settled before I had an agent. I tried to convince them to lower the price if I didn't use an agent they refused, so I just added the agent afterwards. So in this case I am pretty sure that using the discount broker was fine.
Your posts and attitude indicate that you would be "work". I don't know if you come off the same way when talking with lister's.
I don't talk to listers. Communication is as little as it needs to be. I don't deal with people that want to nickel and dime, nor do I deal with people who believe that a reversion in housing prices is a short-term anomaly. You know, people who think we "over-corrected" or that the bubble was natural growth following a period where prices were too low. Those kinds of delusion people would require the greatest amount of work since they are operating in a world that's not our own.
You miss the point. Unless you buy/sell many properties through the same agent, your low-ball commission will only result in your offer going in the circular file.
My commission isn't a low-ball. $4000 is pretty good money for very little work. I am also in agreement with my agent that as this keeps dragging out and if it takes say four offers before I am finally under contract, we'll increase his share of the commission. This was my idea, not his, and he's told me it's not necessary because I'm a no-frills client (as I indicated above).
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