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Saturday, May 22, 2010
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33 comments:
Wasn't this the house that Spider said would sit on the market since it fed into Cunningham Park ES? It looks like it went under contract very quickly.
http://franklymls.com/FX7341383
Mozart-
I believe so. I think it was only on the market 4 or 5 days.
Yes spider, it was "overpriced" and comps were low to mid 400's.
UC in a matter of days?
Yes, I still think it was overpriced. 350k always looked suspect to me even for that neighborhood. 450-475k is what I would have expected, until I dig a little more.
History on flipper purchase follows:
Listed in Feb 2010 - 400k: Perfect property for those looking for a heavy renovation, or those looking for land (also listed as land). Property is being sold strictly AS IS/WHERE IS, please strike appropriate paragraphs in contract regarding both structure and systems. Show by appointment only. Contact lister for viewing instructions.
Flipper buys it in March 2010 for 350k. Listed within 2 months at 200k higher.
Good luck to new buyer with both structure and systems!! No wonder - how important it is to understand previous sales history before paying half a million.
Oh and here is what flipper listing said:
Beautiful up to date frsh/ Sunny bright airy 4 BR, U1 lvl. Marbel: foyer/kit flr/ Frsh Hrdwd U1 & main lvl. New Grnt Ctr top & kitchen cabnt, new qulty stn ls steel applncs, new half bath & marble flr/. .. lots of recessed lighting through the house, finished. rec. rm with wlk up & lots of light. Large sunny family rm to new deck/ fresh pnt Int/Ext mgnfcnt lot. .Must see
Lesson is don't fall for granite ctr tops and stainless steel appliances. Even better - don't ever buy from a flipper.
Lesson is BUY IT FOR 350K spend 50K and have a place WORTH 550K. Don't stand around and complain about people taking risk and reaping reward. It is the entire "turnkey" mentality that makes these flips so profitable.
VA - I can see both points. To me the lesson here is "Do your homework". I would buy from a flipper if I thought the price was fair and the structure was sound. Some of the more unethical flippers just put lipstick on a pig. Caveat emptor.
Another lesson: Make your contingent contingent on passing home inspection to your satisfaction and either walk or negotiate price changes based on structural and systems weaknesses. Hire a competent and ethical home inspector.
oops - "contract contingent." Gotta go back to sleep...
I agree Ace. I walked away twice from properties under contract when the inspector found major structural problems.
It's situational. I would take on system upgrades and even some structural fixes if I didn't have an immediate need to live in the property.
I've been thinking about buying an investment property but like others on this blog, I expect real estate to take another real drop to the downside in a few years once interest rates shoot up. However, I would be buying something for which I could pay cash. I need to educate myself a lot more about cash flow.
Bank counteroffer 100K over the list price (699K) on a short we signed, our agent said based on the comps it is the right price. But I think it is way high, how do you handle a counter offer like that?
is bank counteroffer negotiable?
Shay-
If you think it is way too high than you probably would not accept the house unless the price was lowered. So you may as well try and counter the bank. One of two things will happen. Either they negotiate and you get the price down or they don't and you can either take the original offer or walk away. I would assume most banks are willing to negotiate, but I am sure its case by case and bank by banks. Goodluck
hb,
Thanks for your comment. I think we would like to counter offer a little bit more but not 100k. I have a question what would be a good comparable to see the right price?
Shay,
If your agent says it's about right, he/she should have the comps. It is a distress sale, I wouldn't pay FMV.
Shay - If you want people other than your agent to send you a good comp, you need to provide your listing. If you don't want to show the listing, I suggest you go to zillow and look up comps there (the easy way) or go to Franklymls and look in the solds for properties in your neighborhood with similar characteristics such as footage, bedrooms/bathrooms, highway proximity, etc.
Definartely I will not pay FMV. But the agent is saying based on the comps, it is lower than the market value. I'm trying to see what is reasonable counter offer percentage wise? How much would the Bank will go down?
C
here is the listing
http://franklymls.com/FX7222813
And also tax assessment for 2010 is 779K.
Shay, here are the questions I would be asking:
1) Do you accept these comparables as good ones, or do you need to find others that match, or adjust the comps. for differences with your target property? If you don't accept these, then get others from franklymls and/or tell him what's wrong with his group and ask him to find better ones.
2) If you accept that they are really comparable and recent, is your Realtor right or wrong about selling price? Does it reflect any subsidies (e.g., to cover problems found during inspection, closing cost help)? If he's wrong, what's the right FMV?
3) If he's right about the price and there are no subsidy complications, then that's the price your property ought to sell for. Your challenges are: (a) how much are YOU willing to pay for it? and (b) can you get it for a price lower than FMV?
4) If you know that you don't believe that TO YOU it is worth more than $750K for example, or you are not able to pay more than that amount, then you counter with that as firm and final, or you come back with something less than that but plan on a counter-counter offer. If you get it, you've gotten a great deal, by your own determination of FMV.
5) If there are other bidders, you're unlikely to get it for a price well below FMV. However, as others have said, you have nothing to lose in trying.
Shay, that listing shows as "under contract." Do you have the contract? If so, haven't you already agreed to price and other terms? If not, why is your agent negotiating - is it a backup offer?
Ace,
UC simply means that the current owner/seller has signed the contract. On a short, it is contingent on Bank approval.
I haven't had a counter on a short but I have had a couple sold out from under me under very suspicious circumstances.
I looked at a short last week or so. LA says she won't submit anything below listing price - strange because it's been on the market almost 60 days.
Thank you all for the comments.
Ace,
Yes the house is under contract (we signed it a while ago). There were other offers too but the owner sent our contract to the Bank and the counter offer is from the Bank.
Shay according to frankly mls these are the comps that have sold this year on the same road. comps
It looks like they were all foreclosures and sold for from 740-820K. So you may be able to try and get the price down slightly 10-20k, but my guess is the bank will not sell it for less than the 740 comp. My guess is the bank probably will not want to do a lot of negotiating so you may want your best/final offer next.
Goodluck!
That looks like a nice nabe. The low comp was over a yr ago. A much more (buyer) favorable market.
Also, all the tax assessments on the comps are for last year. I imagine they are all down this year.
I know the LA on the low comp. I'm sure it's all about the timing. In Feb 2009 things looked alot worse.
I'd bet the bank would be receptive to a counter rather than re-market the place. Your agent needs to give them some reasons to accept a lower amount. Come up with some stuff like Ace said. Ex. upgrades, condition, FP's, deck, lot considerations - heck, whatever you can think of. The asset manager has to have something to support a lower price.
p.s. GO BIG RED!!!!!
VA,
Thanks, the house is already vaccated and in good condition. The only thing is it doesn't have a deck and the microwave is taken. But we were thinking of a structure we can mention on the house but coudln't come with anything but now that you gave me a hint we might add some reason to lower the price.
VA,
Thanks for the comps. The house is comparable to the one's with the picture (the inside is really good). But since we have been waiting for a while we might as well come up with a good price and according to the agent they want the response fast.
VA_I, thanks for the info re: contracts. I remember now the suspicious circumstances you described. It would be nice if frankly had two different designations: under contract (with bank approval or without a bank involved) and under contract with owner but not yet with the bank.
MM's house is under contract -- I hope with her.
http://franklymls.com/AR7342895
Cara, I visited the green house in Alexandria. Here are a few observations (TMI alert):
a) people there maintained you could get "a small car" into the garage and could turn it around on the patio so that you didn't have to back it out to the street (which would require very precise vision and coordination). Maybe you could do this with a SmartCar. But nothing bigger than that, IMHO. Also the shared driveway is so narrow that if a car is parked next door even a few inches too close to this house, it's even more risky trying to squeeze out.
b) the "fourth bedroom" in the basement is actually the "recreation room" on the floor plans. The other two areas have no window or door, and one has no closet. So you are really talking about a $1.2 million house with three small bedrooms above grade, and a nice big basement but that's not where most people prefer to have the space.
c) the owner's closet is tiny, and there is no way to enlarge it. The architect screwed up royally in not designing the end of the hallway as a closet. If you don't like dark bathrooms, you won't like the Mba.
d) The kitchen is even smaller and less functional than it appears - the wooden area on the wall is not cabinets--just a wooden panel. The agent pointed out that you could replace that panel with a few cabs (why didn't the builder do that in the first place?) and/or put cabinets along the dining room wall, but then if you have any DR furniture other than a table and chairs, there is not place to put it.
e) there's virtually no place to garden--flowers or vegs. The small amount of green space is blocked from the sun by various structures. Someone was not thinking clearly.
f) the huge garage is simply storage space and where the large green systems have been placed. That's nice for allowing more space for people in the house, but better design would have enabled them to do this without creating an unusable car space for the garage and eliminated garden space.
Of course, green houses tend not to have energy eating fireplaces, but I think most people want to have one and would prefer to have one that's as energy efficient as possible, to create the ambience they want.
So, it's no surprise that, despite the beauty of the place and the nice neighborhood, it has not sold in 3 years--and I don't think it will sell without producing a huge loss for the seller. Too many design mistakes.
Ace,
no, it ain't me. wasn't thrilled by it tho - too much noise fr rt-50. i never knew noise would be a concern for me. or maybe i was just finding excuses not to buy...
MM, thanks for letting me know. No wonder it seemed to have such a good price.
Ace,
Was the green house the house in Rosemont for $1.188 million or something like that? If so I also visited out of curiosity. I didn't like it at all.
Dc2, yes. What didn't you like about it?
Ace,
Thanks for the update.
MM,
Better luck soon.
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