Continuing to examine and hold a lively discussion of the Northern Virginia Real Estate market.
Please post your local house search updates, MLS finds, on-topic ideas, and links here.
accidental landlords, fact, fiction, the true "shadow" inventory? Check out your own neighborhood. Look for rentals amongst the sales in Frankly and then go look up their purchase prices. Anybody else seeing more shorts coming up lately (compared to most of the summer)?
How do you find rentals on franklymls?
I don't know if you can find active rentals, but if you click "solds only" it will display some with rental sized prices that are listed as off-market not sold.It's actually kind of better for determining rental parity, because it gives you a history of recent rent rates.If there's none in your area, try FX* Woodwalk to see some examples.
what prompted this: WSJ Reluctant Landlordsand what should not get buried in yesterday's full bucket:vague concerns about FHA Calculated Risk"The FHA's aggressive lending programs have continued throughout the housing downturn, causing its market share of the mortgage industry to grow from 2% in 2005 to 23% today. ... The FHA insurance fund, however, is likely running dry. ...While almost all of the experts believe that Congress would support the FHA if necessary (it's currently self-funded), we wonder if FHA officials will be under pressure to continue tightening their lending policies, which currently allow 96.5% mortgages to people with 600 FICO scores. ... Claims against the insurance fund have climbed, with roughly 7% of all FHA-insured loans now delinquent.
FHA Commissioner David Stevens denies the FHA is having problems:"Given this reserve level, FHA will not need a congressional subsidy even if the congressional capital reserve calculation falls below 2 percent."I guess they are going to allow it to implode? If not, they should.David H. Stevens was president of Long & Foster before being appointed Commissioner.
For fixing FHA, as the 2 options (other than subsidizing it with tax dollars) seem to be increasing the downpayment requirement or increasing the mortgage insurance, I think a good idea might be to increase the mortgage insurance for the 96.5% borrowers, but then have an option that if you put down 5% (or maybe higher) than you can pay the old mortgage insurance rate. I know a lot of people disagree, but I think FHA can be a good program if it remains self-funded. I absolutely do not want to see it subsidized though. If a bailout is necessary, I would like to see it be in the form of a loan that has to be paid back with future insurance premiums.
Housing wealth:Housing prices v. Housing debt
I found the FHA article encouraging. It sounds like they will probably make reforms. Recall that until last year one needed to put down only 3% for a FHA loan and now it's 3.5%. So hopefully this upcoming FHA crisis will cause Congress to consider a 5% DP or something like that.
Did I miss discussion of this?Unemployment Rises to 9.7 PercentIt will be interesting to see how the DC area compares. Btw, I was not cheering job losses. Just cheering that Robert was proven wrong about a federal jobs tsunami in 2009. I wish I could search through the archives like some of you because I know months ago he was claiming we would not have net job losses this year.Also, I find it silly Robert acts like the source was some no name when Robert has quoted CRA-GMU many times. And CRA-GMU is pretty much a regional cheerleader with NVAR so it's pretty notable they are admitting there will be net job losses this year.
kevin said,Having owned a condo for five years and been witness to the a**-raping the condo association subjects the owners to, I will never own a condo again, and strongly recommend the same for everybody else. Looking back, the difference in what I was paying per month because of the fee, I could have bought a 3BR townhouse instead. The appreciation would have been greater, I'd have an extra room to rent out if I needed, and there would have been more of a tax deduction. This has always been my feeling about condos. You always seem to lose money in comparison to a TH or SFH. Some TH and SFH also have ridiculous HOA fees that I would skip as well.
tbw, kevinWhere I've been looking garden-style condos cost 1/3 to 1/2 the price of THs, TH shaped condos cost 2/3 of a TH. Yes, there's the insult that even after you've paid off the mortgage you have to keep paying for your home. But there were always going to be property taxes and maintanence.So where I'm looking? Aside from the lack of appreciation potential? The "condo" annoyingness? Is priced in. Heavily priced in. The garden-style condos (until this last $8k frenzy kicked in) were at cash-flow positive not just rental parity.Now, there are plenty of places where that's not true, mainly the entire concept of "luxury condos", but there you're choosing to pay for something else. Which I know, is not something any of the three of us personally want or value, but other people do.
Has anyone else done my other bit of homework? Going through the tax records for a neighborhood of interest and finding out how many homeowners bought during peak prices and still own today? 24% of Woodwalk bought when the going price for the two-level TH style was over $300k and haven't yet sold. 45 properties.Which one scares me more, those who paid peak prices and therefor may have actually qualified for those loans? Or those who held on to them and Heloc'd based on peak prices. Hard to say. I say the heloc'ers are the bigger problem right now.Buying now is still a serious serious gamble, because you're betting on your neighbors to live up to their commitments despite being underwater.I'm curious though, how bad is that fraction in the places you guys are looking?Feeling very much the "tired bubble watcher" today. I shouldn't have to be sitting in a short sale just to buy a house at a decent price, and I blame the bubble. But maybe the fact that this is still a necessary tactic is enough evidence in and of itself, that it's not yet time to buy. OTOH, if the local economy turns around soon and rents don't fall, I see no reason why these units won't continue to be a desirable alternative to renting (at the price we have under contract...)
Cara,I think older and/or garden style condos tend to have lower condo fees. I think most do not have 24 hour front desk people (since it's not one building). Those front desk people cost probably $40k+ each after benefits and taxes etc. Some condos have swimming pools, gyms, etc that also require a lot of maintenance. But some garden style noes have pools and gyms too. Ten smaller garden style condo buildings do not have as much boiler room maintenance. It's just pricey to keep the HVAC system going (or at least that's what I'm told.)Honestly, it's hard for large condo buildings to work as anything but a rental. The landlord gets the economies of scale whereas 100-300 condo owners have to subdivide those costs and it's just tough. Add in a bunch of non-business people running a condo board and that's even more mess. How many condo boards are doing paycuts or non-raises this year for front desk people? How many apartments are doing it? I'm not saying any of that is good but let's face it -- the market rate for a job like that has gone down. But most people don't have the heart to be ruthless like that. So condo fees just go up, up, up.
Cara,Which one scares me more, those who paid peak prices and therefor may have actually qualified for those loans? Or those who held on to them and Heloc'd based on peak prices. There definitely was a large segment of buyers in the DC area who were prime borrowers in 2005-07and barring catastrophe can continue to afford that mortgage. However, I'm pretty certain they viewed their 2005 condo purchase as being on the housing ladder. They thought the condo would continue to appreciate in value and that would be their way of going up the housing ladder (along with perhaps further salary increases). What do they do if it takes until 2020-23 to get back to the 2006 price let alone appreciate further in value. These people are going to have babies and marry etc. They can't live in their 1 BR Arlington/Burke/etc condo forever.
tbw,Yes, all the condos that I'm looking at are old, don't have any full-time help or ammentities for that matter. Just gardening, exterior maintainence reserves, snow-plowing that sort of thing. It's possible they have a hired firm to do their accounting (one hopes!) but that's about it.Actually having staff really only works well for apartments.
Heck, even if they are single men/women their whole lives you get more and more possessions and you might want to have at least a 2 BR condo. I think almost everyone wants more space than a 1 BR or studio condo by age 40.
Cara,Feeling very much the "tired bubble watcher" today. I shouldn't have to be sitting in a short sale just to buy a house at a decent price, and I blame the bubble. But maybe the fact that this is still a necessary tactic is enough evidence in and of itself, that it's not yet time to buy.Why can't buyers (like you) just say "I offer x if we close by date y, I offer x-$10,000 if we close by date y + 30 days, I offer x-$20,000 if we close by date y + 60 days [and so on]." Why can't you contract penalties for banks taking forever? It's definitely not costless for you to close in 30 days versus 180 days. I don't see why banks should just get to take their sweet time.Worst case scenario the bank does not take your contract but they might never again be offered x dollars.
They're 3 bedrooms. And we plan on starting a family in it. In fact most of the units have families in them.I think in the case of Woodwalk this was more of a "foot in the door" than a "Step on the housing ladder". It is the best value for a family sized dwelling in Bonnie Brae Robinson within walking distance to the VRE. (The Commons on the other side is a tie) At the height of the bubble it was $150k less than anything else with comparable living space in the area. So these were the, "buy now or be priced out forever folks."Still you make a valid point in general. This is not what anyone buying between 2004 and 2007 expected. Whether the change is the lack of equity/overpaying compared to neighbors or whether it's the loss of upward mobility, the point is the same. These folks will be providing the inventory at a trickle for a long long time. Part of the whole, long flat period.The "danger" comes if they all give up really soon and all decide to simply stop paying.
Oh I keep forgetting these are large condos. There are not many places that build three bedrooms any more. The paradox was as they kept building SFH and TH larger and larger the developers built smaller and smaller condos. Any condo built after 1998 or so has much smaller rooms than anything before then.
tbw,Interesting scheme, and similar to one that irvine renter suggested for "organic sellers". The thing is the contract is with the seller not the seller's bank. So the best we've got now is our "Get out of jail free" card date. Which for us is next week!But it is a good idea to ponder. Because we're in the situation where every month we hold off is more cash we have on hand for moving and fixing costs. So since we're still cash limited (rather than income limited) closing later is just as well. (aside from the annoyance of the month to month rent premium). But, it's not "fair" to give the bank the advantage of our situation... The truth is I don't want to start shopping around again until after the $8k is either expired or renewed and its effect has dampened.
tbw,yeah, no there's even co-ops closer to the VRE that have garages for under $330k lately. Sure, you'll have to pass along the co-op discount to the next buyer, but a nice sized garage TH for under $350k is not a bad deal. (right now, in Burke, add caveat...)
tiredbubblewatcher said... "I found the FHA article encouraging. It sounds like they will probably make reforms. Recall that until last year one needed to put down only 3% for a FHA loan and now it's 3.5%. So hopefully this upcoming FHA crisis will cause Congress to consider a 5% DP or something like that"Oh god I so wish that would happen, but we know it won't. The housing lobbies will do anything and everything to make sure it doesn't.
Cara said..."Where I've been looking garden-style condos cost 1/3 to 1/2 the price of THs, TH shaped condos cost 2/3 of a TH."Okay, that is significant. When I bought my condo in the low-200's (before the bubble went wild), in the upper-end of what I could afford at the time (250ish) were townhouses that were 50% larger, 3BR, and dollar-for-dollar no different in terms of monthly cost. Of course, I was young and stupid and didn't take into account all of this, and the condo looked all nice and modern. If only my Realtor had pointed that out.... But yes, with that sort of difference in price, I wouldn't dare disparage anybody choosing to buy a property at 1/3 the cost even if it meant condo fees. It's just that five years of dealing with that b.s., I could write in lengthy detail about how awful my condo association was, and in dollar terms I paid them probably $15,000 over the years. Ugh.
Were the owners living in it when you viewed it?(asking about the short sale we passed on and later went to a loan mod situation)Yes, they were not only living there, but were in there watching big screen tv while we were being shown the house- rather bizarre and a wee bit creepy, in my opinion. Maybe it's acceptable in this area, since we've seen it several times, but in other places people leave when their house is being shown.
tbw said: There definitely was a large segment of buyers in the DC area who were prime borrowers in 2005-07and barring catastrophe can continue to afford that mortgage. However, I'm pretty certain they viewed their 2005 condo purchase as being on the housing ladder. They thought the condo would continue to appreciate in value and that would be their way of going up the housing ladder (along with perhaps further salary increases).What do they do if it takes until 2020-23 to get back to the 2006 price let alone appreciate further in value. These people are going to have babies and marry etc. They can't live in their 1 BR Arlington/Burke/etc condo forever.I don't often comment, but had to reply to this because it is my husband and I, spot on. Prime borrowers in 2005, but yes, paid an inflated price for our 2BR condo in Fairfax. Paid aggressively into our mortgage for the last 4 years, and every. single. penny. is gone. We're not upside-down, but it is too close for comfort and frankly, too painful to "realize" the loss. We are petrified. Paralyzed. Do we buy now? We have savings, good, stable jobs. Try to "wait it out"? Our son is bigger every day; our condo is smaller and more logistically unrealistic every day. But, the market is scary and we don't know what to do, so for now, we stay put. Thanks to all who post on this blog - your comments are a great source of information.
Is your money safe just because the building has an FDIC sticker on the door?Probably, but I like my banks to be local and conservative.
Vanka Vstanka you said..since we've seen it several times, but in other places people leave when their house is being shown.Please don't take this wrong but as a seller I need to say something in our defense. After people have spent 1,2 or 3 viewings staying an hour, an hour and a half or even 2..I will not leave for them, either. Its this type of buyer that keeps me in and out of the market. I can only take so much before I throw in the towel. For one thing, I only have the weekend off, that Sat and Sunday is when I do my chores. If I have to leave for a couple of hours to show,we do, but its not going to go on forever. Buyers please think of the sellers. We have to clean before you get there, schedule meals and chores around you, leave for the alloted time. Do you have any idea how tiring it is to kill and hour or 2 doing nothing? We have realtors schedule between 11- 2 or 1 -4..yep, they like plenty of time then they don't show and don't call or they show up at 6. I'm sorry I'm already mind numbed myself for 3 hours, we aren't leaving again. I have a home for sell, the key being home. As a buyer don't treat me like I'm a Maceys or Walmart, a big impersonal buisness.
Julie,I would give you the same advice I would give Jermey or anyone afraid of losing more money in housing. If you are buying an investment, don't. If you are buying a home..well, DO NOT buy a home that is already tricked out with granite, SS and such. Those improvements will degrade after a few years..like 4/5..and you are paying for someone elses upgrade. Find a home with at least a 1/2 acre and not in a big sub-division of track homes. Live in the home for at least a year before you decide how to improve. Location, location and location, look for a home well priced for this market in a good location that needs updating. I'm not talking about serious flaws, just the ususal flippers upgrade. There is a reason flippers are or do make money. Yes, its inconvient to update a home but if your main goal is to protect your purchase price thats how you do it. And try like the dickents to get an assumable loan even if its a little higher. If interest rates go through the roof it will offer you leverage on a re-sell.
PW6914484 - PRINCE WILLIAM Full Listing 7501 COLONEL WEAVERS CT, MANASSAS, VA 20111This was on the market 11/08 for 499,900, U/C 435,000..now its back at 525,000. I've also noticed foreclosures pricing higher. Someone needs to take the lead and inform these banks that they have a ton of shadow inventory. LOL..just goofing..I would be the first to say I didn't buy the bulls in 06 & 07 and since I've been paying attention to pricing and inventory..I don't pay attention to bears in 09. I've also lived through some housing booms and bust and I know nothing lasts forever in either direction.
julie,Thanks for sharing your story.Hang in there. I know you weren't exactly fishing for advice, so I apologize for giving unsolicited opinions, but it's in my nature...Make a plan for moving into your 20-year home 2 years from now. Stop paying down your mortgage any faster than the normal amortization schedule. Instead, keep that extra savings in cash/CD's for your new downpayment fund. Build it up aggressively such that by itself the cash on hand is at least enough for 5% down + 3% closing + 2% moving costs. More is obviously better, but that should be do-able in 2 years.Here we all think prices are going to stay flat for a long long time, so waiting 2 years won't hurt you in terms of the affordability of your long-term home. However, if we're wrong, the price of your condo should also lift somewhat freeing up some of that first downpayment and principal for your new home, so you also win.You said you're not underwater now, and given that condos are generally at rental parity now, so I find it highly unlikely that they will fall any further.Separating your future purchase from this condo will allow you the freedom to choose between selling immediately upon buying if prices are such that you're comfortable taking the loss, or refinancing the condo into a loan that will be covered by the rental income. Anielarke and Va_investor can attest that using your starter condo as a rental investment is actually not a bad plan. And can be the start of an additional income stream as inflation slowly but steadily makes the rent outstrip the costs of ownership.Keep your cash, and watch it grow, and plan for the future in your new family home. Sinking it into the bubble bought condo is just going to make you hate the condo even more. It's your money, save it for the home you really want. 2 years from now will be a great time to buy, because the uncertainty that's hovering now will be gone. Really anytime in the next 5 years (other than right now) should be a great time to buy. All the best.
Arkey said:"...Buyers please think of the sellers. We have to clean before you get there, schedule meals and chores around you, leave for the alloted time. Do you have any idea how tiring it is to kill and hour or 2 doing nothing? ..."It sounds like you should just keep your house and forget about ever selling it. If buyers are such a nightmare, don't sell. Problem solved. From what i've read, you have a nice home. Enjoy it. Stop torturing yourself. Complaining about having to clean and schedule your meals around buyers is a bit silly.Suggestion: Drop your asking price by 20%. You'll probably get multiple offers within a few days. Grab the best offer. If you like it, take it. If not, delist and have a few drinks and relax.
I concur with novahog. Arkey -- if you didn't sell your home for its current listing price this summer then you are only going to torture yourself with more visits this fall/winter with probably nothing to show for it. Either drop the price substantially or delist it. Your only other hope is fiscal recklessness on the part of Congress and the $15k no AGI limit bubble reinflator tax credit.
Thanks Novahog. Thats real insightful. What I was addressing was calling sellers creepy because they didn't leave after the house had already been viewed several times in the past. If you were to ever sell a home you'd understand that I wasn't complaining about cleaning and showing. I was complaining about rude realtors and self centered lookie loos not buyers. I sincerely wish I hadn't relisted but I did. I'll tough it out till the end of October because my realtor has invested time and money in the listing.
Cara..not everyone on the board agrees with prices going down for the next few years. I certainly don't.
That's because Manassas is special, right?
Thanks TBW. I really appreciate your finacial advice. You guys just assume if something isn't under contract its because there haven't been any offers or interest. Well, you could be wrong. Its sorta like people without children telling others how to raise them.
You guys just assume if something isn't under contract its because there haven't been any offers or interest. I didn't assume that. Based on your comments it seems safe that no one offered your asking price or close to it or else it would be under contract.
NoVawatcher..Manassas bottom was 2008. Yes, I guess we were/are special because we got dropped kick through the goal post of life first. If you've ever had back to back years of $100,000 drops in your assessments you could probably do the math even with a PWC education and realize the firestorm has burned through out here. My 09 assessment clicks in about 37% off my highest.I'm not going to sell for less per sq. ft than I can buy for anywhere down south. It is some of you guys that refuse to smell the coffee. I'll pull it and wait for the rest of the country to tank before I re-list next time.
TBW, I'm trying to sell now so I can retire. Its priced well and fairly to me and a buyer. I've come real close a couple of times. One was so close I would have taken it but the vote was 2 to 1 against.
Here is the legislative calendar for the House.Eight weeks until target adjournment at the end of October. First week they are voting on nothing large: calendar for the upcoming week in the House of Reps.That leaves seven weeks. How much time will universal health care eat up? All of September? Will they have time to extend the housing tax credit? How acrimonious will health care be? How acrimonious will the tax bill be even without the housing tax credit (they are aiming to increase the top two marginal tax rates, provide many low income tax credits, and many other changes.)$8k extension still too close to call but I'm pretty certain Isakson is not getting $15k with no AGI phaseouts.
Sorry this is the link for the House calendar for this year.
Arkey,Even parts of Fairfax County, like Springfield-Lorton, have seen those price drops and reductions in tax assessments. I think prices have pretty much bottomed out in these areas too.
Hayfieldgrad..I agree. 2009 is the time to buy in my area and that area before they recover from the sucker punch thrown at them from the 3rd and 4th quarter of 08. I've never in my life ever witness that type of sell off in volumn and price. There are market bottoms and tops but nothing has ever happened like that. It truely is housing history lore.
Arkey,You are leaving out that also never in your life did home prices rise 120-180% in six years. The bust is so large because the boom was so large.
Arkey said: "If you were to ever sell a home you'd understand that I wasn't complaining about cleaning and showing. I was complaining about rude realtors and self centered lookie loos not buyers."I won't be selling my place for a long time. I will be buying another place within the next year or two, assuming i can find the right house at the right price.Not sure why i would have to sell my home to understand what you were saying, i just had to read what you said. Doesn't really matter anyway. I'm not trying to be a jerk, i was just wondered why you were trying to sell if you can't stand the process. Whenever you sell something expensive (car, house, etc) , you're going to have to deal with a ton of crap if you want to hold out for what you think is a "fair" price. I learned that lesson when i sold my last car. Huge PITA. Got several offers for less than what i thought was fair, had to deal with a ton of calls, test drives, no-shows, etc. I ended up selling it to a buddy 6 months later for a little less than the first offer i received.I hope everything works out for you.
I don't want to be rude Arkey, but it seems to me that you've spent the past several months posting here as a way to convince yourself that your house is special and it's not overpriced.
novahog, I'm familiar enough with the process. I've sold in many markets and states throughout the years. There are "buyers" out there and I mean that in more ways than one. Anytime you self label yourself a buyer and haven't found anything after looking for over a year in a buyers market, ya might need to reassess instead of labeling all sellers as greedy. I think its some kind of mental illness and I bet half the realtors in NOVA would agree with me. NoVawtacher, OK, I'll be rude. Bite me. I went back on the market at the end of July and I don't believe I've tried to convince anybody of anything. I've said I think its priced right and it is. I could give a tinkers damn what you think. I just finished showing it again. No realtor, no open house...just a very nice older Asian couple with very weak English showed up at my door. If you aren't selling in this market, you don't have a clue what sellers are going through. Its a free for all.
I wish I could search through the archives like some of you because I know months ago he was claiming we would not have net job losses this year.TBW, no need to search the archives, Northern Virginia will have net job gains for 2009.
Arkey,I think I found your listing but to be polite I will not say what it is. [Arkey has noted before what HOA she lives in and a few other hints.] For some reason you have to load a tour to see the interior of your house. Have your realtor put those pictures on the listing and not require people load the tour.If I found Arkey's listing -- she's not overpricing as dramatically or laughably as I thought she might be based on her comments the past few months, but it is about ~10% too high. And I think next year will be ~12-15% too high.This is not an area of PWC that has bottomed. It's a nicer area and not one of the crappy areas where at least 50% of the homes went into foreclosure and the bottom came quicker.
Isn't there some real estate agent lore like a buyer decides within 2 minutes whether its "The House" or not? I would also wonder what someone was doing in my house for 2 hours (do they have a contractor or inspector with them, maybe??)...that seems a little excessive, unless Arkey's house is huuuuuuuuge. When we sold our house, a couple knocked on our door at 10 p.m. !! wanting to see the place. I told them no. That is just freakin' rude, and our baby was asleep.
"Isn't there some real estate agent lore like a buyer decides within 2 minutes whether its "The House" or not? "i've talked to people and they say "I walked in the door and it felt right"everything else was the justificiation.When I bought my place, i walked in the doorand it felt happy. the fact i bought it cheap wasjust the feel good part.
Google makes it pretty easy to find old statements. Here's a gem:Robert said...I'm not suggesting we are going to build anything like the Department of Homeland Security, but I do think health care, energy, and eduction are going to add a lot of federal workers and contractors to the DC area.Also, with so many changes and so much money, it would be intuitive that lobbying firms would see gangbuster business as things get hashed out.Seems like everybody on either side of the debate would want to get their arguments heard. So, not just solar, wind, and geothermal, but the competing side of oil, gas, and nuclear. It'll be a dogfight.From Sunday's Washington Post:In a year when Washington's influence industry should be thriving, with epic battles over health-care and energy legislation, lobbying in many sectors is in marked decline as defense contractors, real estate firms and other companies pull back in a down economy. Overall spending on lobbying has leveled off for the first time in a decade, according to disclosure data filed with Congress. Lobbying revenue for many of the city's most powerful advocacy firms, including bellwethers such as Patton Boggs and Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld, plunged 10 percent or more in the first half of the year.Washington also has 2,200 fewer registered lobbyists than it did a year ago, the lowest tally since shortly after George W. Bush took office in January 2001. ...The formidable defense industry, reeling from tens of thousands of layoffs, has cut back expenditures by 17 percent this year. That was true even with the lobbying effort triggered by Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates's cancellation of the F-22 fighter jet and other major weapons projects, which had long survived thanks to the lobbying prowess of major contractors. Northrop Grumman has slashed its spending for lobbying in half, and Boeing and Lockheed Martin each have reduced spending by more than $1 million. I'm not holding my breath for Robert to admit he was wrong about lobbyist spending in 2009.
Arkey,You have a very nice house. The price doesn't seem far from recent comps. For NOVA, it seems like a steal for what you get.
Is Manassas really NoVA? I always thought the cannons left at Bull Run pointing North was the true beginning of "The South." And I don't mean that in a derogatory way, I grew up a couple hours southwest of Manassas.And you definitely don't want to commute to most of NoVA from Manassas, unless you leave at 5am.
Lobbying.TBW, you've challenged me on a lot of things I've posted, but you didn't on the lobbyist's spending. That article must've been a surprise to you as well.
"Is Manassas really NoVA?"Sure: MapDraw a line from Leesburg to Warrenton, then over to Woodbridge. I consider anything North and or East of those lines NOVA.Arkey has a nice, big place on a big lot. That's hard to do in most areas of NOVA for under $600K (especially with that size lot).
arkeyI said flat, what part of flat equals down?Long slow _flat_ period. But yes, indeed there are people on the blog who believe prices will be going up not flat. Which you'll notice I included in the scenario. She is in FFX county not PWC where the dynamics have been different. While I think it's possible even reasonable to think that PWC county prices may be particularly adversely hurt unnecessarily, and that they'll rebound to "normal" levels soon (and then start the long slow flat period), I don't think that's plausible for FFX.
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