Wednesday, May 13, 2009

Foreclosures Up Up and Away

MIAMI (AP) -- The number of U.S. households faced with losing their homes to foreclosure jumped 32 percent in April compared with the same month last year, with Nevada, Florida and California showing the highest rates, according to data released Wednesday
. . .
April was the second straight month with more than 300,000 households receiving a foreclosure filing, as the number of borrowers with mortgage troubles failed to abate.

The April number, however, was less than one percent above that posted in March, when more than 340,000 properties were affected. The March data was up 17 percent from February and 46 percent from a year earlier.

"We've never seen two consecutive months like this," said Rick Sharga, RealtyTrac's senior vice president for marketing. "It's the volume that's surprising."
. . .
Rounding out the top 10 were Arizona, Idaho, Utah, Georgia, Illinois, Colorado and Ohio".

From the Realty Trac press release:

"The 10 states with the most properties with foreclosure filings in April accounted for more than 75 percent of the national total."

Foreclosure activity graphic of US.

79 comments:

Cara said...

It's coming. It may not be as big as some of us might selfishly want, but its coming.

How come I don't feel guilty about thinking about buying already foreclosed properties or listed short sales, but do feel guilty wishing some of the buyers who bought THs for $400+ would put theirs on the market in the complexes I like best? I mean I don't care if it's them or the long time owners, they just seem the more likely sellers.

The short sale I mentioned yesterday is unoccupied. Does this seem fishy to anyone else? Does this imply that they bought their new place and are now trying to unload their TH? Does it make a difference if they rented it out for a year? Is that really immoral, or just prudent? I'm leaning towards, just prudent.

CRT said...

Foreclosure rates (1 in every ___ homes) by county:

Arlington 1 in 963
Alexandria 1 in 900
Fairfax 1 in 328
Loudoun 1 in 377
PWC 1 in 128

Locally, results of the "spike" are mixed. Arlington posted its 2nd worst month, Alex & Fairfax posted their 6th worst month, PWC had its 5th best month. Loudoun had its best month ever.

That said, if these are mostly NODs (realty trac doesnt distinguish types of filing by county) we could see a noticeable rise in rates in a few months. Thus, we need to watch that carefully.

Also its clear, that the large improvement seen 2 months ago was just a blip. Basically this looks like a continuation of the same trend we have seen for a while - foreclosure rates arent substantially higher or lower than we have seen recently, and the large divergence between Arlington/Alexandria & the rest of the area remains.

spunky said...

Cara-
I have been in 2 Short Sales recently (Loudoun CO.) that were still occupied by the Owners.

Both families were foreign.

(DISCLAIMER : I AM MARRIED TO A FOREIGNER & AM NOT PREJUDICE!!!)

Both homes were lovely & well maintained.

Both homes have large seconds on them (cash outs???)

One home still had the Maid running around cleaning & putting away laundry as the "woman of the house" barked out orders to her.

Neither home appeared to be hurting for $$$.

Thoughts...??

Robert said...

More than 342,000 households received at least one foreclosure-related notice in April, RealtyTrac Inc. said. That means one in every 374 U.S. housing units received a foreclosure filing last month.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, the sky is falling 1 in 374. It's the end. Get your guns, canned food, and water while you still can.

kevin said...

Cara, I don't understand what you feel guilty about. However, I wouldn't feel guilty about anything since I see nearly every seller (including many banks) as being selfish and bubble-brained when putting out their listings. No, your house isn't at a 25% "discount", it's 40% overpriced because of the bubble so lower it!

RJGEMS said...

Robert,

You are the floating turd of the great swimming pool that is the world.

-RJ

Cara said...

kevin,

I feel guilty because I'm hoping for someone else's misfortune. But I guess their real misfortune already happened, which was that the timing of the life lead them to buy in 2004-2007. The damage to their finances from overpaying for housing is already ongoing, and I'm hoping for something to release them from it.

(I really missed my calling as an apologist).

Cara said...

spunky,

My thought is that while these will be short sales, the lender will not release them from the debt, and instead give them a new un-collaterilized loan. They're still "short sales" in that the sale amount will not cover the note, and therefore the bank has to agree to release the lien on the title in order for it to happen, and must accept the uncollaterilized debt obligation in lieu of one who's collateral has collapsed in value, but it's not necessarily un-kosher. If the family then goes and tries to have that uncollaterilized debt crammed down in bankruptcy then they're really gaming the system. But they may instead be so tickled with what they can now buy with their money that they won't care about the continued debt from the old house.

dgg said...

I'm curious how quickly someone who sold their house via a short-sale can reenter the market? With a foreclosure, I assume there would need to be a significant amount of time before you buy again, but how about with a short-sale? Could people who have sold via short-sale turn around the next month and buy if they had the necessary cash?

kob said...

Cara, The only reason I feel guilty, and why I think many have a vague feeling of guilt, is an empathetic response to the idea that personal misfortune underlies some of the foreclosures and short sales. I hope that's a humanizing impulse.

Its polar opposite is the indiscriminate belief that people who are in foreclosure or selling short are there by greed or incompetence.

Cara said...

dgg,

Last I heard it was 2 years for a Fannie/Freddie backed loan, maybe 3.

That's why you do it the other way around. Buy your new house first, with the old one being converted to a rental. Even if rent doesn't cover the mortgage, it still helps, and you may still qualify for a new loan (as long as its a modest one). Then you rent or try to for a minimum amount of required time, and then go ahead and dump it. The one I'm looking at, bought in the 90's for under $150k, but then spent a lot on upgrades (and maybe some heloc for the downpayment on his/her new house?), so is probably not very far underwater (unless he took out the full bubble appraisal amount). So if his/her mortgage is only $270k or so, he may well be able to afford someplace else at the same time.

Cara said...

kob,

That may be a lot of it. The ones I'm looking at I definitely wouldn't categorize as greed or incompetence. These were amongst the very best properties available in 2004-2007 for anything under half a million dollars. So, lacking the foresight to see the crash coming and wait it out, these were the best possible alternatives to buy. Which is why I think most of these people are also probably never going to need to sell, because if one had to buy at that time, these were amongst the smartest choices you could have made. It's just unfortunate how much they're having to pay out for having their life line up badly with the boom and bust cycle.

I know too many people who bought between 2004-2007 to not empathize. These are my friends and family. It's even a reason why I feel odd about buying too nice of a house... I have little excuses already ready in hand to explain why my friends places are really better than anything I'd buy. Oh, yours is convenient to the metro, mine just the VRE. Oh yours is a huge TH and in Reston, mine's just in Burke, who's ever heard of Burke? Or if we buy a SFH, oh, but we had to wait so long to even begin to afford this...

Am I good or what?

dgg said...

That is interesting. I wonder how many of these short-sellers will be re-entering the market in the next year or two?

Kob - I felt for the people we bought our short-sale from - not guilt, but a sadness for them and their circumstances. They actually thanked us and seemed relieved to have it off their shoulders - still it was a different experience than purchases we've done in the past. I think it does help to remember that behind all these statistics are individuals and families who many of which have had their lives greatly affected. Sure some made poor choices and some have played the system, but I suspect many are just decent people trying to make a good life for their family and found themselves in an uneviable position.

Konstantin said...

Spunky,
I'm quite sure that these folks bought during the peak, now have a 100k-200k hole (that's the norm for townhouses in sterling, 2003-300k; 2005 -- 500k; 2009 --- 300k)
and also improved income, so they can either afford a nicer place for more money, or similar place for much less money. They already bought their new home and now are getting rid of their debt. Not sure that it is that easy to get rid of the 200k of debt from the bank, but even though virginia is a recourse state collecting such a debt is very difficult. If I was a bank I would go after them, to set an example at least. Moral hazard at its best.

aarlrenter said...

CRT,

Where do you find the foreclosure rates per on the Realtytrac website? I used to be able to find the rates per by scrolling over the map by jurisdiction, but that feature is no longer available. I'm interesting in getting the rates for DC and some of the inner Maryland suburbs.

Thanks in advance.

spunky said...

Konstantin-

These were originally Million dollar SF homes that are now Short-selling for 650/700K.

I don't know what the circumstances were nor did I ask, I simply found it odd.

And I have also seen some very sad short sale situations as well. Those are heart rendering - there but by the grace of God go I...

What is really odd to me is that these 2 shorts have been on the Market for a Month now and so far there's no Contract on either of them. And they are DEALS

One of them even reduced the price by another 25K already......

Cara said...

spunky,

At $650k they're looking at a very small market of potential buyers, many of whom know that it's not the owner who sets the reserve price, it's the bank.

There's a short sale listed in Burke for $160k, that's priced at the very very lowest REO in it's complex, which was a trash-out. (2 other REOs went at $185k). It's only been on the market a week, but I wouldn't be surprised if it sits, because who's going to believe that the bank will accept that low of a bid? It's just implausible.

Plus, word has gotten out that short-sales are an enormous hassle, and the counteracting word (by frankly) that they are now closing when done by competent listing agents is less well known.

The Anonymous said...

Aarlrenter - yeah they mixed it up last month - I had a very hard time finding it myself. Here you go.

http://www.realtytrac.com/TrendCenter/Default.aspx?address=MD

Same story over here as in VA - some MD areas had their worst month ever, some had their best month ever, most are in the middle. MD inner counties, which used to do better than even Arl & Alex, have clearly surpassed them and are burning down at a much faster rate.

CRT said...

Aarl renter - you have to navigate around a bit, but they are still there. They can be found for each state under a button that says foreclosure trends.

CRT said...

The ANon - thanks.

kevin said...

Cara,

That is not wishing for misfortune. As you noted, their misfortune came when they bought the property, or sucked out $100k in equity to pay for their BMW and daughter's wedding. You see the market for what it really is and ultimately will be, their heads are stuck in the clouds of 2006, becoming more bitter for you "stealing" their house. Pity their ignorance, but not their predicament. At the end, it may come down to them saying "I only profited $100k instead of the $300k I deserve" when in fact they might be lucky when they look back a few years later.

contrarian said...
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Cara said...

Everybody go read this:
NY Times CC debt collectors turned psychologistsOMG. Between the risk-assessment based on your purchases to the chosing the debt-collector you'll most closely connect with, this whole thing is just scary. Big Brother is here and now.

The Anonymous said...

Kevin - kind of an interesting (and timely) follow up regarding our conversation about market manipulation:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/12/business/global/12diamonds.html?pagewanted=1&_r=2&hpw&adxnnlx=1242171264-jAlA70Cu5nGx8Jx5FFGrcA

Cara said...

The Anonymous,
That's awesome!!!!!
one of many choice quotes:
“We have to tell people that diamonds are valuable,” he said. “We are trying to maintain the price, just as De Beers did, as all diamond producing countries do. But what we are doing is selling an illusion,” meaning a product with no utility and a price that depends on the continued sense of scarcity where there is none. diamonds, the next tulips?

kevin said...

The Anonymous, that is hilarious. I for one would never buy a diamond because of the manipulation. I hope that the future Mrs. Kevin understands and realizes that if she gets a really nice fake, we can pay for several vacations with the money saved=)

Market manipulation is wrong, but you cannot blame the co-conspirators when 99% of their consumers are plainly ignorant of what's going on and how badly they're getting fleeced. Kinda like... housing right now.

Cara said...

Kevin,

or she could, like me not want an engagement ring at all. My husband's wedding band took twice as much gold as mine, so he has the most expensive ring, technically.

(but I am a skin-flint, it's true).

kevin said...

Precisely, Cara. And there are a lot of other gems out there that are much more original than diamonds, and aren't a controlled resource. It's a growing trend amongst younger people. The poor gals that feel they HAVE to impress everybody (or make them jealous) should just go with a fake diamond. Or grow up.

the_Nothing said...

Egads....

http://www.redfin.com/VA/Alexandria/6726-Lenclair-St-22306/home/12069311

Hope foreclosures don't look like this...

contrarian said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Xpovos said...

the_Nothing,

You picked a winner there! $300K cash-only because it can't possibly qualify for financing. I love how it's right across from a shopping center.

kevin said...

contrarian, thanks for posting that. Somebody correct me here: it says the tsunami will occur in the 2nd quarter, but we're well into the 2nd quarter, right? I'm confused about the time frame they are projecting there.

Cara said...

advice/hand-holding??

I'm trying to "help" my mom refinance. (I'm not really doing anything other than being a sounding board). She now has a rate-lock at a rate that is plenty low enough to make it worthwhile, but it's dependent on the application going through, of course. Which is dependent on two things, (1) her income, and (2) the assessement.

2 first. No houses in her development have sold this year. The 3 houses her approximate size that are currently on the market are all priced above $549k. Her 09 tax assessment was $575k. The bank person said the assessment needs to come in above $510k in order to qualify for this low APR. To me, that sounds like plenty of leeway, despite the total lack of sales. Am I being complacent?

1) The reason she's getting the refinance is because she'd like to have better cash-flow. SS, and 1 pension are fixed incomes (inflation adjustments aside), but she's currently only tapping the income portion of her retirement account not the principle. She plans to adjust this pay-out a bit after her house payment is settled upon, but right now, that makes each month "tight" (by her standards...). My understanding is that as far as the bank's concerned, if you're willing to put your retirement account down as an asset, then that can balance out a low income stream/ high monthly DTI. Is this true?

Thanks all for any insights.

Xpovos said...

Cara,

Not much, certainly not on #1, which I know nothing about (sounds like something I should learn something about though.)

But on #2, I think you're fine. It's unlikely a new appraisal is going to come in $60K (>10%) off the '09 tax appraisal. Obviously, location matters somewhat for that to be more than a generic and possibly wrong blanket statement, but the $575K was presumably reasonably accurate in January. It's been a moderately strong spring. That much decline doesn't make sense unless there's underlying property specific problems. I would not be surprised to see the appraisal come in in excess of the $550K being asked by the neighbors.

Cara said...

comment of the day from calculated risk:

"Not One Cent (homepage, profile) wrote on Wed, 5/13/2009 - 11:15 am Once we hit bottom, we will enter a Mobius-Strip-shaped recovery.
"

(IMHO)

Cara said...

xpovos,

its in MA, not VA, so the spring hasn't been so kind there. Her county has a 10.9% unemployment rate, that's what happens in a summer-only tourist based economy in a recession. The only hope for employment there is if the locals start actually applying for the jobs the business owners have "outsourced" to jamaicans and college students every summer for years.

tiredbubblewatcher said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Xpovos said...

Cara,

For other states, I think the most important question to ask about appraisals is how frequently they're updated. E.g. Maryland is a 3-year rolling. If MA isn't as strict to the year as VA, that could definitely impact the new appraisal negatively.

tiredbubblewatcher said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Va_Investor said...

Rearding "empty" shorts.

I think that these are mainly former "investment" properties. I'm closing on one next month that had been bought by an "investor" (and I use the term loosely). If you check the tax records you will see that the owner may have a different mailing address.

I also looked at one yesterday that is tenant occupied - so, again, another investment property.

That short that I am closing on has been under contract since January and finally received Bank approval. I hear that Banks are going to be much more responsive to shorts going forward.

The next 6 or 12 months should be interesting. I wonder how many foreclosures we will see.

kevin said...

tbw, me too. And not to be too engaged in schadenfreude, I sort of hope they learn their lessen from their greed. I don't know if I speak for everyone else here, but I just don't want to get ripped off or screw myself. It is a 30 year commitment for me.

housebuyer said...

tiredbubblewatcher,

I don't think it is likely that people will make a lot of money off of housing, but depending on how long the feds printing presses stay on it is certainly possible. If there are several of years of high inflation housing prices could increase substantially when the inflation stops, rates fall, and peoples incomes are much higher.

I don't expect this situation, but it certainly could happen

CRT said...

Ahh Contrarian thanks for bringing that up. Actually, if you read your own linked comment (which had to do with ALT A versus this story being about defaults generally, but nonetheless), you will recall that I said:

"This is not a tsunami, it is a slowly rising flood."

I may need to back away from that statement because never in my wildest dreams did I think inventory would be falling as dramatically as it is. And to think that its happening in the spring season when it should be rising.

If this continues, I will have to revise my statement and say its a slowly receding flood instead.

No matter, I will re assess in a few months once this alleged tsunami hits. If this guy is right, it will all eventually show up on our inventory rolls and they will rise once again.

In the mean time I will just keep watching all that current inventory go buh-bye

http://www.recharts.com/nova/nova.html

Va_Investor said...

CRT,

I agree with you. The investors and first-timer's are coming out of the woodwork. I think that there is plenty of demand for reo's at current pricing and the market can absorb alot more. There would have to be a flood to bring the lower end down further.

This is the best cash-flow I've ever seen and by the looks of it (multiple offers) many investors are thinking the same.

I don't care if prices go side-ways for 10 or more years.

**HeadingToFX** said...

Technical question from a (mostly) lurker -- does anybody have trouble signing in here on this site? I can never sign in. I have to create a new account each time. I swear I remember my password, but every single time it tells me incorrect password. What am I doing wrong?

tiredbubblewatcher said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Robert said...

I thought this board was about the Northern Virginia housing bubble. Seems to be several folks that cite these nationwide statistics. The Washington DC area will outperform every other metro are over the next 3 to 5 years. People, don't be misled with the national statistics...it's time to buy in Washington RIGHT NOW.

Post ArticleFor those that don't want to read the entire article:

The research firm Delta Associates is predicting that the bailout, stimulus and other related regulations could lead to demand for 2 million to 4 million more square feet of office space in the next few years, including for contractors.

But while stimulus money will be spread all over the country, managing it will fall to Washington, said Knight Kiplinger, editor in chief of Kiplinger's Personal Finance and a self-described "voracious student of the Washington economy." He compares the expansion possibilities to Washington's growth around the Civil War, World War I, the Depression and the Great Society, saying that even when other metro areas' economies struggle, Washington's generally grows.

"It's relentless," he said.

Robert said...

Hmmmm. Trump buys golf course in NOVA: Doesn't he realize that the DC area will have sky high unemployment and falling incomes????

Monday, May 4, 2009 11:12 AM

“This is the time to buy.”

As for his own real estate, Trump is excited about his recent purchase of the Lowes Island Club in Potomac Falls, Va., on the Potomac River outside Washington, DC.

“This great asset…would never be available, in fact wasn’t available until just recently,” Trump says.

“It’s going to be a tremendous asset. And it’s going to be the best [golf] course in the Washington area by far.”

Trump says, “I have the No. 1 course in California, Trump National. I have the No. 1 course in Florida. And this will be also the No. 1 course.”

Va_Investor said...

Yup. The bottom feeders are getting busy. Jeez, why would anyone buy now? Unemployment might soar, the stock market may crash, the world as we know it may end....

and darn those greedy sellers! A house is only worth what I think it should cost!

Well, one can always hope.....

contrarian said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Va_Investor said...

Cont.

You must be alot of fun at parties. Why not just kill yourself now? Doesn't seem to be much/any future.

Are you taking a break from digging your bomb shelter?

People who share your way of thinking are paralyzed by fear; unable to move.

Are you stock-piling gold or canned goods? What a life...

You know, it goes by fast. Best to grab some enjoyment.

I'd invite you to join our group (plan B) at the farm, but I think you'd be a real downer.

contrarian said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Va_Investor said...

Cont.,

Seriously dude, help is available...

If the world is coming to an end, then what the heck are you doing on a "housing" board?

NoVAwatcher said...

Donald Trump's condo plan in Mexico collapsesNew plan for Trump Tower Tampa builder: BankruptcyTrustee Objects to Weil Hire in Trump Casino Bankruptcy

Cara said...

robert,

Trump's business plan is now and has always been to buy when creditors gave him money to do so, and then cram them down in bankruptcy or threats thereof to make the purchase cheaper than it was retroactively.

So, that Trump is buying in NoVa means that he believes 3-4 years from now the property will be much cheaper than it is now, and he'll be able to change his cost basis then, withour having to deal with the bidding wars that might otherwise ensue if he waited to buy it once the price was right.

BFD.

Robert said...

Bubbleheads skipped over this, and went to trash Trump.

But while stimulus money will be spread all over the country, managing it will fall to Washington, said Knight Kiplinger, editor in chief of Kiplinger's Personal Finance and a self-described "voracious student of the Washington economy." He compares the expansion possibilities to Washington's growth around the Civil War, World War I, the Depression and the Great Society, saying that even when other metro areas' economies struggle, Washington's generally grows.

"It's relentless," he said.

Cara, what you said is so ridiculous, I'm not going to address.

Cara said...

robert,

Why not? don't you know what he did with Trump tower? Or Atlantic City? Haven't you noticed this consistent pattern to his buying?
I lived in Jersey when all these things happened. Everyone felt that following Trump into Atlantic City was a great plan, and they lost big-time (a few years down the road, admittedly, but nonetheless).


This is his business model, and it works great, if you can do it.

The jobs picture in the DC area is not dire, and as I have said many many times before, DC is perhaps the best place in the US to weather the current economic downturn. That's not the same thing as RE prices here are going to soar anytime soon.

Robert said...

Okay. So, some lender gives Trump money to buy a golf course. Trumps sits on it (expecting depreciation), then Trump forces his lenders to reduce the mortgage. Then Trump sits on his property (this time appreciating) and sells for a profit. I think this is what you said.

Preposterous.

What really has happened is that Trump has had some business failures. Some of which resulted in forcing creditors to accept less than full value. (But this was not the business plan. It simply failed.) Trump has a lot of failures, but he has more successes, thus the reason he is a billionaire.

NoVAwatcher said...

What's up with the lack of returns between those links I posted? Do I have to manually put in
's?

NoVAwatcher said...

Government workers are famous for being lavishly paid.

kevin said...

"Government workers are famous for being lavishly paid."

And very educated. Anybody that would complain about how much they make compared to the median salary needs to compare the educational backgrounds between the two figures.

Va_Investor said...

Cara,

I saw nothing in Robert's post about "prices soaring" anytime soon. We are talking possible buying opportunities and what the "smart" money is doing.

I'd take Trumps analysis before advise/predictions from many here.

I'd also listen to Steve Fuller.

I know that some here have been analyzing charts, spreadsheets, historical data...and God knows what else..for months and years.

There comes a point where enough is enough. What truly is the downside? If you can only stay 5 yrs, I wouldn't buy. 5 yrs has ALLOWS been the rule of thumb for B/E on transaction costs.

Similarly, if you are insecure about your job then you should rent. I can't fathom the "man" hours that have gone into the over-analysis going on here.

And, for Contrarian,....I'm speachless.

NoVAwatcher said...

kevin: I was joking.

Cara said...

va_investor,

Look back over the last couple of days, clearly Robert's trying to instill the "fear of being priced out forever". Why he's trying to do this? I have no idea.

Furthermore, if prices aren't going to soar? Then there's no impetus to buy now rather than hold off until you find what you really want. (for owner-occupants, not cash-flow investors like yourself). If prices are flat, what difference does it make if we've reached the bottom? As I've said before, interest rates are based on the national market, not just the local one and since we will turn around faster than the rest of the nation, our window for good monthly payments at bottom prices will be longer than most places.

By the way, what interest rates have you been able to get as a landlord in this environment? Just curious. The common wisdom is a 1.5-2% hit for being non-owner occupied, but it's possible you've been able to do better.

Va_Investor said...

NoVa,

While it's not K Street salaries, it's not bad money and can certainly afford you a decent home.

NoVAwatcher said...

Steve Fuller is funded by NVAR -- NVAR even provided a scholarship for at least one of his grad students.

kevin said...

Novawatcher, I am gullible. Actually, it was a comment I saw after an article the other day. Some person said "they make on average 75k, whereas the average american makes 45k. lower all der salaries to 45k!" I didn't reply to him to let him know that the average person in the U.S. is far less educated than a govt employee in DC, but his ignorance was outstanding. This is probably the only time I'll defend the govt or policy wonks in this region=)

Va_Investor said...

Cara,

The prime reason that I would want to buy sooner rather than later, despite a lengthy period of "flat" prices, is the AM schedule. If rent and mortgage are virtually the same, I rather jump aboard the AM train. What I am buying will be paid for in 10yrs (based on current cash-flow) and then it will be of no matter what my original cost was.

So, I am a "payment" buyer. My only risk is that rents crater but I can always extend my am schedule as it is "self-imposed".

As far as rates, I am in the unfortunate situation of owning too many properties to go with most forms of financing so I am taking what is available to be. 5yr money at 6.5%. I'd love to get 30yr money if I could.

I'll do what most prudent people do and accelerate the pay-off of the highest interest rates and take as long as possible to pay-off my 5% loans.

Cara said...

va_investor,

6.5% for an investor! That's nothing to sneeze at. Have they upped the number of properties from 4 to 10 yet?

Current rent's still a lot cheaper than the mortgage on a $375k house, so no reason to jump on the AM train early for me, but yes that is a perfectly good reason.

Va_Investor said...

NoVa,

So you would ignore Fuller and his extension knowledge of NOVA. Do you truly believe his forecasts are bought and paid for?

Yes, he has made some mistakes - but who hasn't? Take all the analysts across the board and tell me what percent got it right? And, did these same people get the dot.com right and the S&L crisis...

Va_Investor said...

Cara,

Your price range and the rent vs mortgage analysis is the reason that your competition will be other owner-occupants and not so many investors.

If your after-tax condideration payment is cheaper than owning, then the only considerations are:

Will prices go lower?

Will interest rates stay low?

Is the ownership premium sufficient to keep you from having the satisfaction of owning?

Are you seeing any "normal" sales in your desired nabe or just distress?

Va_Investor said...

Cara,

Your price range and the rent vs mortgage analysis is the reason that your competition will be other owner-occupants and not so many investors.

If your after-tax condideration payment is cheaper than owning, then the only considerations are:

Will prices go lower?

Will interest rates stay low?

Is the ownership premium sufficient to keep you from having the satisfaction of owning?

Are you seeing any "normal" sales in your desired nabe or just distress?

NoVAwatcher said...

Yes, I would ignore Fuller. His forecasts for the region the last few years have been so wide of the mark as to either (1) be a mark of gross incompetence (e.g. top-down analyses w/o looking at bottom-up), or (2) indicate that he is bought and paid for.

Cara said...

va_investor,

I'm not sure I followed all of your questions, so I'll just answer the one I'm sure I'm not misinterpreting.

Yes, there are "organic" sales in Burke. I don't have a percentage number for you, but at a GUESS, 70% REO/short in the under $300k category, but more like 40% REO from 300k-450k? And less there on up, but they are most definitely selling. It's actually an excellent market to sell in right now in Burke if the price suits your needs/wants. Then again I'm not trying to sell a house.

Va_Investor said...

Novawatcher,

You may as well add 99% of the financial planners to your garbage heap.

If you require a guarantee that prices won't drop next year, you'll be waiting until you are dead and buried. Same thing with stock, gold, commodities...heck even cash does down in value.

NoVAwatcher said...

Don't get me started on financial planners.

Fuller predicted in January 2008 that a housing recovery would occur later that year that would drive regional growth:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/03/AR2008010304053_2.html?sub=AR&sid=ST2008010402553

Va_Investor said...

Novawatcher,

I don't think Fuller is too far off. I've seen much worse.

Cara,

Are those unemployment figures for the District or the Region?

Cara said...

The 9.8% current 11% projected unemployment figures are just the District, not the region as a whole. But if people start being able to buy houses in Foggy Bottom.... watch out below.

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