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Thursday, January 8, 2009
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44 comments:
Okay so this impressive list price drop is brought to you by the fact that (a) the first price was WTF, and (b) it's a short sale, with not lender approval noted, so not going to happen anyway, but still:
$200k in one leap.
http://www.franklymls.com/FX6919596
11/10/2008 $539,500
1/7/2009 $339,500 -37.1%
"Proud owner has invested in his property"
So that would explain why the initial price was $100K more than the prior sale. He bought, then either took a second mortgage, or HELOC'd and spent some of it on rennovations; which admittedly, the house probably needed.
He's probably better off stopping payments, saving the 6 months of cash for his next rental and bailing.
Given that it only took him 2 months to decide to drop the price $200k, (down to close to what the nieghboorhood is pricing at right now) he probably is bailing. Whether he can find a rental with his tarnished credit history is another thing. I'd require 3 months security deposit from him if I were a landlord (and if that were legal to do). Lucky for him, that's like 1 month's mortgage payment.
Flippers dominate foreclosure market...
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601213&sid=apFMheiIZtPo&refer=home
Good article Doug. I was a bit worried about that, especially in PWC in that it seems like there are so many sales that this sign of "health" may not be what it appears (i.e. a county with less than 100K houses should not have 1,000 sales in a month).
At least with this round of speculators, they are better funded (no junk loans), and many are likely big enough to better manage holding costs, I.e. less likely to flood the market the way the amateurs did in 06 & 07. Still, its a shame in that this very well will change the character of some neighborhoods, and likely not for the better.
interesting find Doug.
I don't know that this is all bad... If the flippers delay the last of the preciptous decline and make it more gradual, fixing things back to livable condition, or even refurbishing things a bit so they can justify a higher selling price, while finding tenants who will notice if the house is flooding and keep the pipes from freezing... Aren't they essentially putting their own butts on the line to do what the government would otherwise have to pay good money to do? Blame the builders who overbuilt for making more houses than were needed, but it seems to me that as long as the bottom is relatively near, flippers are part of the solution.
Or at the very least, they're part of the process of the great unwinding.
(says me who maligned them last week)
Yeah they are necessary because no bank will give a mortgage on a fucked up house. The flippers buy in cash, fix it up enough to live in, make a nice 5-10% on their money while its being rented, which is a lot better than the stock market right now, then sell it a few years down the road for a lot more than they paid.
Most of these guys are paying 20-30% of the loan value ( likely 50-60% current tax value ) in cash, so there is almost no way they can lose money.
The other big winners are the mass purchasers. Ive heard of guys buying hundreds of properties for a few million, then auctioning them 1 at a time, getting 3-5x their money back. I guess the banks just have so many properties, and with bailout money in hand they dont care any longer what they have to write down.
The thing that I feel bad about is that the same ultra rich elite will still be the ones making sick money off all of this, while people like us will be busting ass for the next 20 years to pay for it.
For instance, the average tax payer will have to pay approx 100k over the next 20 years to pay for the trillions of government debt being accumulated.
Those of us who make more money, say the top Obama bracket ( still doesent make you rich around here ) are likely to pay close to 1 million dollars due to tax code.
Thats about twice my mortgage balance is!
Cara,
I can top that price drop:
$300K at once:
http://www.franklymls.com/PW6909380
12280 UNITED PARK Way
BRISTOW, VA 20136
Price: $300,000
previous asking: $600,000
But it seems like there was some confusion in the price, so who knows. It was at $689,000 for 495 days in 2007.
Short sale prices are capricious. This is a big house for $375,000:
http://franklymls.com/PW6952136
But then again, 10909 Crider, right behing it, sold for $360,000 10/30/2008 (prev. $721,615 11/28/2005), about the same size, so I guess they are in the ballpark after all.
Doug/CRT, I am starting to wonder at the sales pace out here, and how many are "real" versus speculator deals. But considering the pace of foreclosures (still accelerating, last numbers I had), I guess there will be plenty more homes for all of us to choose from come spring.
Hey CRT, any "whisper" numbers for ol' PWC/Manassas?
Tabitha,
Those are both big houses.
In the second one, somehow the 2 story "living area" with the space heater surrounded by birdcages doesn't attract me to it. Though, the indeciveness on where to install the toilet paper in the bathroom as evidences by all the white blotches is worth a look...
CR has weighed in on the speculators newsclip:
Speculators or Investors
He appears to feel that there is an important distinction to be made between those buying for quick appreciation and those buying near the bottom for cash-flow.
Tabitha - unfortunately, no, the only ones I got were the ones I posted. As to the choice of homes, I think you are right. Despite lower inventory in PWC, the low end is still totally flooded.
That said, I think you should watch the low end (under 300K) inventory count closely. In Nov there were 2641 SFH available for under 300K, down about 1,000 units from the summer. This year end fall in inventory didnt happen in 07. In 07, the low end inventory count rose every single month Jan-Dec.
If PWC low end inventory starts to rise next spring, sit back as you still have plenty of time. However, if they continue to drop during the spring, I think you should pay much more attention to them.
PS Tabitha - following up on the other day...Nice job on determining the appraised value of that house - 2K off the appraiser's mark is awesome!
Cara - I agree with CR in that the speculators v2.0 are an entirely different breed. Many are cash buyers, and have low holding costs. Thus, I am not worried about a "double dip" as prices rise. Their hands are stong enough that they wouldnt come out en masse and push prices down again. However, they very well could keep prices from rising for a very long long time.
Anyone know what "cash or rehab loan only" means? Is that only for properties that are practically falling down, or can it be just for cosmetic problems?
Just saw this new listing in the same neighborhood as the other ones I mentioned earlier:
PW6954393
10918 CRIDER Ct
BRISTOW, VA 20136
Price: $316,900
Fascinated by the price. Countrywide foreclosure. Taken over at $663,691 in August, originally $766,825 10/4/2005. What's up?
tabitha
it's not on frankly yet, how'd you do that?
(not that I know the answer about the loan any more than you do)
here's a true new listing just a couple hundred yards from my yesterday's 'why hasn't it sold yet' house and also priced very close ($665K vs $675K). so, which one would you choose? or rather, which one would sell first at current prices?
btw, many thanks for those who commented yesterday. i appreciate the different perspectives to better evaluate home values.
Actually, Cara, I was stalking certain streets in different neighborhoods we had remotely considered, looking for foreclosures that have not hit the market yet by scrolling through the county assessor's website. I was entering the information from New Bristow Village into my spreadsheet when I checked Redfin to look up a street name, and saw the new listing that was only a few minutes old. I tried Frankly, myself, and noticed it wasn't there yet. Go figure.
Since you seem to have most of the answers I seek, Cara, do you have any advice about getting listing agents to show their listings? We aren't interested in getting our own agent at this time--maybe never, we'll see--and we're back to begging and pleading listing agents to let us see their homes, or beating off the "bait and swtich" substitutes. We want to be fair and upfront, but it seems like a neverending minefield. Are there certain code words or phrases that get the simple message across: "We want to see your listing. We do not have an agent. We do not want you to be our agent. We know we are asking for your time, and will make it as convenient for you as we can, and would not trouble you unless your listing were a real possibility. Thank you."
MM,
with no interior pictures of the first one it's really hard to say. But the second one is only a 3/2, not a 4/3. And it appears as if one of the bedrooms is a dungeon (at least from the windowless photo). And the second house has not lot to speak of. And, if you search for 3 bdr on frankly, you'll see a lot available for less money. Which is why I think neither are going to be selling, even if they're a bit cuter than their 60's split level competition.
But if I had to bet, I'd say the side street and existing occupant will make this new one sell faster.
Tabitha, I know I'm not Cara, but franklymls has a good answer to your question and argues that you should NOT call the listing agent. IIRC, go to any listing on franklymls, go to the bottom of the page, and I think you'll see a link to this info.
T, here's this frankly answer:
http://franklymls.com/dontcall.htm
tabitha,
"you seem to have most of the answers I seek" LOL.
I don't have this one either. We've never bought a house before, and are planning on going with someone at Frankly when we finally get into the market this fall. (Notice how every few months, that date gets pushed back?) Frankly negotiates the buyer's agent comission upfront (as a percentage) you could try to talk them into a lower percentage for you based on the promise of detailed positive feedback onto this blog for the other future buyers here. Oh, and in case you haven't seen it!! This is the best, Frankly was making noises about eliminating the listing commision on houses that you purchased through them if you have to sell and don't make your money back. I know, this will be your "forever home" (or is that just for adopted pets?), but still, it's a good offer in this market.
Okay, so I get this monthly newsletter because I went to an open house and signed my email last year.
This is a priceless mix of half-truths and wish-lists for sellers:
What's In What's Out with Buyers this year?
My fav:
"What's IN
Sidelined home buyers. Family or lifestyle additions or changes made in buyers households in the last three years are forcing those waiting out the market transition to finally get off the fence and say, it's time for our family to buy the new home that suits our new needs."
Ah, see buyers "have" to buy, they must, they must, they just can't possibly rent any longer. The horror! Especially when rents are going down in LA (checkout CR again).
hot off the press:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/28562958
Citigroup became the first major bank to support a controversial plan to let bankruptcy judges alter mortgages in a effort to prevent more housing foreclosures.
AP
Until now, banks have been ardently opposed to the proposal, which key Democratic lawmakers hope to attach to President-elect Obama's economic stimulus legislation.
The so-called "cramdown" proposal has been backed by Democrats over the past year as a potential solution to the foreclosure crisis.
Ace, with all due respect to Frank, that procuring cause issue is complete BS. That is an agent to agent issue, not an agent to buyer issue. If you have no contractual agreement with a buyers agent, it will never be an issue. If you have an agreement with a buyers agent it still will never be an issue for the buyer so long as your agency agreement is clear that any commissions are payable solely by upon settlement and payable solely by the seller (language easily added to any standard agency agreement).
And besides the procuring cause theory being BS, there is a true advantage to going straight to the listing agent for showings and writing contracts etc (i.e., being unrepresented) SO LONG AS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING* and that reason is that the listing agent will get both sides of the commission and will therefore push the seller to take your offer over others (regardless of whether the terms are less than optimal for the seller).
*In other words, you know the proper price to pay for a property, know how to negotiate properly (realizing the listing agent you are giving information to is working for the other team), know which contract terms you should require to protect your interests (contingencies, etc.).
On the other hand, if you don't know what you are doing you should seek representation.
Tabitha - Seriously, listing agents won't show you their listings? Do they not want to sell the properties?
john, thank you for that insight. Your comments make me feel a little bit better about doing things on our own...for now.
These are some of the situations we have encountered with listing agents, this year and last year:
#1 They send someone else: "Hey, I'm just doing this as a favor for my friend the listing agent. Here's my card. Can I be your agent?
Derivation: "Can I be your agent? No? Well then I can't let you inside."
Derivation #2: "Can you just sign this little form? It's just for safety/my records/liability/my broker requires it/etc?" (It's a contract for agency.)
Derivation #3: "Can I be your agent? No? Well, why would I show you a place and waste my time if I weren't going to be your agent?" (After this kind of exchange, I always wonder how persuasive they think that kind of talk will be after ambushing me.)
#2 They say they actually work in Maryland/Fairfax/Arlington, and are never really out this way, so they'll get back to me "sometime" when they're in the area.
#3 We have a nice little chat, and after learning we don't have an agent, they say they need to "check their calendar," and never call me back/answer another one of my calls.
#4 For short sales, they assure me there are "several" other offers pending, but they'll call me and show it to me if they "all" fall through. (I know it is always possible there are, in fact, several other submitted offers, and they are assuming one of them will work out, and there is no need to get my hopes up. But somehow, I think they are more concerned about wasting their own time, rather than mine, and aren't exactly looking out for the hapless seller's best interests with this strategy. What if my offer is the one that gets the bank's attention?)
Those are some generic examples. There's the listing agent who was too hung over to drive, so he asked the seller to let me in, and the "seller" at the house was actually someone squatting there. There's the agent who confirmed a certain date and time the day before, never showed up, got my husband really mad because he came home from work early, then got defensive and said we had remembered the wrong date (NOPE!! We had his confirmation in writing--his fault!), then tanked our offer by conveniently not passing it along to the bank for a couple weeks, not returning our calls all the while. There's the agent who saw us at a couple of her open houses, and offered to show us the place again while my parents were visiting (I wanted my engineer dad to weigh in on some repairs). I said sure, but do it when you need to be here anyway, so it is no trouble for you. That's what we did, and when we got an agent later to write the contract, she called us crying (literally), asking "How could you do this to me? I invested time into you!" (Again, we never even slightly left the door open that she would be our agent.) She refused to talk to our agent, and for a while, refused to pass along our offer to the relocation company. When the house sold to someone else, she emailed us the announcement, like "HA! So there!"
This is all just for starters. I always wonder about people not married to a lawyer--how do they survive this process? We were just picking up some new construction brochures at a development out here, just to compare those prices with the going rates for resales in that community. The sales agent hands them over, then asks my husband to "sign in." My husband says he'd rather not, that we had the information we needed. The guy got insistent, so my husband switched to lawyer-mode and asked him point-blank if the "sign-in" was actually a representation agreement. The guy said yes. We left.
tabitha,
we're in the same boat - wanting to go to open houses but don't want to commit to an agent yet. however the last two open houses we went to the listing agents didn't ask whether we had an agent or not, unlike in the past. even the sign in sheet didn't have a column for agent name.
Cara,
the second house also borders a semi-busy street - N George Mason Dr., just not facing it. In fact I'd say it's busier than Harrison with bus stops at the intersection.
tabitha, john etc.
These statements are not inconsistent with each other, and they all boil down to basically what Frankly said. If you go to the listing agent yourself, they will try to get the full 6% commision for themselves (or for their brokerage) and you won't get any added value of someone who's supposed to be bargaining on your side. As JF said, if you know what you're doing, that's fine, let them have the full 6% if they'll put your offer above all others. But, what you seem to be asking for is for them to do all the work of the transaction, but still get the same 3% commission, and they're not going to accept that. Indeed, some of these are asking for more than that, they're asking to become your buyer's agent and therefor guarantee themselves a sale, no matter which property you choose. And that's not reasonable, you should be able to turn that down and still look at the place. But, it's a racket.
Tabitha, as I read your post I could only think of one thing - no wonder realtors have the reputation they have. Sure there are some decent agents, but there seem to be many, many more who are dishonest, unethical, lazy, etc.
With all your bad experiences and troubles and your serious interest in seeing homes for the purpose of buying one, it sounds like maybe you should find a very professional agent who specializes in homes in your target area and sign an agency agreement WITH ONE BIG CAVEAT: The agent only gets a commission if he finds you the house you end up buying.
Something along the lines of: "Commission will be payable to agent only in the event that buyer completes settlement on a property identified and shown by agent during the contract period and will expressly not be payable to agent in the event that buyer identifies a property during the contract period or anytime after its expiration and completes settlement. This right to represent expires after 90 days, but may be extended at the option of the buyer."
...with the standard language in the agency agreement that is written to benefit the agent at the detriment to you striked through.
I did this once when I was looking to buy a house. I was upfront with my agent and told him I was more than happy for him to earn a paycheck as long as he was the one who found us a house. He agreed to the deal. He showed us several properties. He told us we would never find the type of property we were looking for in the neighborhood we wanted for the price we wanted to pay. We found one on our own, and he didn't get paid. I thought that was fair.
Lots of agents will balk at this type of arrangement and that's actually a good thing for you. Chances are, those that balk are lazy or incompetent and you don't want them representing you anyway. And a really good agent, who knows an area well and is confident he can find you the right house will also be confident that he'll be able to earn that commission and won't have a problem accepting those terms.
The good news is that a lot of the really bad realtors will be forced out of the business over the next couple years.
They have always had a bad reputation of course, but I suspect many of them have resorted to even worse behavior now that sales are hard to come by and values are down.
There are a lot of realtors that jumped into the business during the bubble who have never seen a normal market, and the current market is much worse than "normal."
this article about "inexpensive" housing makes me laugh.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Radical-cheap-1000-cnnm-14005833.html
the agent states, " It's an excellent opportunity, according to agent Tonya Stoudamire."
according to the article the banks pay out the entire purchase price plus additional monies to the agent...so if it is such an excellent deal, the agent could purchase every single house and collect every single commision and have a couple hundred crack houses.
Leroy,
i went to look at a rental show by an agent. I researched the property prior and saw that the property was listed in MLS for sale for over one year. I asked the agent if the property was every listed for sale and the realtor said, "absolutely not, althought the owner purchased at the peak of the market, but prices are now bottoming out. This is the best price I've every seen for a condo rental in this building and I don't think that prices can go lower than this."
Okay...I said...."how much did the owner pay (as if I did not know)...bunch of lies continued, I was horrified...and the line that may or may not be correct..."I have eight different people who want to see this, so you better make up your mind soon"...with those words, I said that, "thanks for showing me the place, bye"
Listing agents who won't show you the property are not acting in their seller's best interests, which they are legally obliged to do. They can't know for certain that you are "not serious" and thus they may be passing up an opportunity to get a good offer for their seller. If I were the seller and I knew they had done this, I would be having a discussion with them or their broker.
So what the Bloomberg article http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601213&sid=apFMheiIZtPo&refer=home
really means is that the public pays increased taxes to enable the bailouts; the bailout money goes to banks; the banks sell foreclosed properties at great discounts to their friends; and the friends then speculate by reselling these houses to the public at an increased price.
We, the public, lose on both ends.
In Buck's yahoo news article was the answer to one of Tabitha's first questions:
"Rehab money
Most of these $1,000 homes can be renovated relatively inexpensively, and buyers can actually get government help to finance these repairs. The U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) has a special loan program for just such purchases.
Its rehabilitation mortgage insurance, available through FHA-approved lenders, was designed to encourage banks to issue a single, long-term loan to buyers that covers both the acquisition and rehabilitation of a property, according to HUD spokesman Brian Sullivan."
i.e. you will need to be signed up for a loan that covers both the aquisition and the rehab costs in one go.
Cara, thank you for that. I stopped being lazy last night and looked up a little about rehab loans. Intriguing.
I did connect with the listing agent for the rehab house, and he said what happened was the family that got foreclosed on took everything. EVERYTHING. The kitchen island. The toilets. The HVAC. The A/C. The water heater. The sub pump. The irrigation system out of the lawn. And scratched the place up pretty badly while they did so. It's amazing how many times I have seen this. This one family took the light switches and the heating grates. It's tragically funny, I guess.
john, last spring, we did eventually get an agent who was a great guy, and when we did not buy, that was that, even though he had invested a LOT of time and effort and probably professional embarassment into us. We always took his opinion with a grain of salt, but for the most part, he was really an ideal. If we do get an agent, we will either go back to him or get a hired gun from a discount brockerage, the same one my brother used when he bought in Ashburn this fall.
Buck, I did not even include all the flat-out lie conversations. Don't get me started about those.
CONTRARIAN!! That is excellent info! It's early, so I'm a little confused: are values going to be 30-50% lower when assessments come out this February/March, or NEXT year, 2010? Are they combining the actual losses of this year with the projected losses of the coming year? It's hard to tell.
I have been trying to find something about City of Manassas/Bristow/Gainesville/Prince William Couty assessment projections, and when they will be posted online, but no luck.
tabitha,
well, it may actually be a good thing they took the toilets. Because you know, the latest thing in toilets is "comfort height" toilets which are like 3-4 inches higher than normal, which is great for older or heavier folks, but terrible for short people like myself (I hate not having my feet flat on the floor) and even worse for kids. So, you see? It's all good.
If the house we buy has comfort height toilets I'm going to make them subtract the cost of replacing them from the price-tag.
(sorry rant off)
Virginia Foreclosures Skyrocket
BY CAROL HAZARD
Media General News Service
Published: January 7, 2009
RICHMOND—The number of foreclosures in Virginia doubled during the first 11 months of 2008, compared with all of 2007.
Data analyzed by the Richmond Times-Dispatch show 27,938 foreclosures statewide in the 2008 period for all property types, including single-family homes, businesses, condominiums and lots. In 2007 in Virginia, the total was 14,022, an increase of 99.2 percent.
Nationally, an estimated 2.2 million homes in the U.S. were in foreclosure in 2008.
Just as many homes, if not more, are at risk this year, and industry experts say the problem isn’t likely to subside until 2010.
Residential foreclosures cut across all income levels and house styles and prices: A foreclosure is a boarded-up house for $26,900 in a modest area. Or it’s a new $1.9 million mansion in a more expensive one. Both were foreclosed and repossessed last year by lenders in the state.
Virginia has fared better than most states in its mortgage delinquency and foreclosure rates. Still, areas such as Northern Virginia are among the nation’s hardest hit.
Prince William County — with the highest number in the state — recorded 7,672 foreclosures through November, more than three times as many as in the Richmond area. Loudoun County saw nearly as many foreclosures as the Richmond region, with a total of 2,073. Also stung are more rural areas such as Caroline County.
Caroline is a growing area between Richmond and Fredericksburg. Builders may have been overly optimistic in assessing how fast the area would grow, housing experts say.
“Foreclosures are not all low-income — that is the misconception,” said Brian Liggan, co-owner of Virginia Capital Realty in Richmond, which deals exclusively in selling repossessed properties for lenders.
Lenders aggressively lower prices if properties don’t sell within designated time periods, Liggan said. “It’s a price-driven market. Everything sells once the price gets right.”
The biggest price jumps, hence the most foreclosures in Virginia, are in the northern part of the state. Yet even areas with relatively low foreclosure problems such as the Richmond region have pockets of housing with a high concentration of foreclosures, according to the report. In Henrico, foreclosures increased more than 1.8 times more in the first 11 months of 2008 than in all of 2007. The county recorded 428 foreclosures in 2008.
Areas with large numbers of foreclosures in general have the most subprime loans, according to the Fed report. In 2000, about 750,000 subprime mortgages were made in the U.S., according to the Fed. In 2005, the number increased to 2.2 million.
“Subprime loans are an important part of the foreclosure wave, because even though they comprise only 12 percent of all mortgages, they make up over half of all foreclosures,” the Fed report noted.
What’s more, most people facing foreclosures have been in their houses less than three years, according to data from Housing Opportunities Made Equal of Virginia Inc.
“Many couldn’t afford these loans in the first place,” said Connie Chamberlin, president and chief executive officer of HOME.
Foreclosures are the hidden tragedy, she said. People who lose their houses go into emotional hiding, she said. “The impact on the family is unbelievably hard. They don’t want their neighbors to know what happened to them.”
Although lenders have clamped down on lending requirements, virtually eliminating risky loans, the bad loans are still making their way through the system.
Jay Brinkmann, chief economist for the Mortgage Bankers Association, said foreclosures were expected to subside this year, but the recession kicked in.
“The effects of job losses and general economic deterioration make the 2009 outlook worse,” he said, “particularly if mortgage problems become more widespread.”
Tabitha - you said your husband was a lawyer? If so, has he ever considered getting a realtor's license? From what I understand, the exam is fairly easy, and if your husband remembers his Property Law and Agency from the bar exam, he probably knows 1/2 the answers right now.
I dont know what the registration fees are, but you could conceivably get access to these places yourselves, keep the 3% buyer's agent fee, and not have to worry about a bunch of deadbeats not interested in helping you.
To be honest, I really dont know what exactly is involved in it, however I know a couple of guys in my office did this to sell their houses themselves and save the 6%. It might be worth looking into this...
If and when I start looking for representation I'll probably go with the woman who apparently does the real estate charts that CRT often recommends: Katie Wethman http://katie.yourkwagent.com/atj/user/HomePageGetAction.do
I've never had the problem of agents refusing to show me something unless I signed an agreement--then again, haven't really looked since 2000-- and then we used zip realty. I would be inclined to ask if the owner knew about it if an agent refused to show me a house-- and suggest that I might just look up the owner's name in the public records and call to find out!
Ace said...
Tabitha, I know I'm not Cara, but franklymls has a good answer to your question and argues that you should NOT call the listing agent. IIRC, go to any listing on franklymls, go to the bottom of the page, and I think you'll see a link to this info.
Maybe I don’t follow….Tab, do you have a “buyers agent”? If NOT, call the listing agent and ask for a showing. I looked at over 100 homes last year with no problems (and with no “buyers agent”) OF COURSE the sellers agent does not represent the buyer, but are we still so naive to think that a “buyers agent” represents the buyer? I thought not..
Now, things must be different in your neck of the woods in that the sellers agents will not show you the homes?.....The only reason I can think that a sellers agent would not try to make a sell without a “buyers agent” is to make sure that they had someone in your camp to collaborate an inflated price. Can anyone think of a legitimate reason?
Robert, please share the way you ask a listing agent to show you a house. There must be a certain script that does the trick.
Tabitha: the solution to those is "Well, is that so? Well I guess I'll just have to contact the sellers directly, and tell them that I'm contacting them directly because you refuse to show me their house unless we sign their friend on as our buyer's agent."
Cara: Cara's advice is right on the money. Be upfront with their agent and let them know that if your offer is the one that is accepted, they'll get the full 6%.
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