In today's bits bucket, blog reader KH mentioned a story from the Washington Post about the hundreds of drivers that take advantage of Dulles "airport business" (i.e., buying a cup of coffee) to gain access to the Dulless Access Road. This helps commuters save many minutes off of their morning commute from "out there".
KH asks: "Why do people make this drive?"
(WSJ: Suburbs a Mile Too Far - h/t CRT)
Hog responded: "I wouldn't move my family to DC for any price" and suggested a poll which I've posted on the right-hand column of the blog:
"If house prices were the same, where would you choose to buy a primary residence?"
Tuesday, June 17, 2008
Where Would You Live?
Posted by Harriet at 5:04 PM
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19 comments:
Similar topic discussed in the WSJ today - an increased demand for urban style housing. This sort of lifestyle is not everyones cup of tea, but does represent a shift away from the suburbs that has dominated the last 50+ years in US housing preferences.
Gas prices are part of it, but the other is just an increase in consumer preference for walkable urban areas. If this trend is correct, it could be one of the main reasons close in areas are doing so well in the "months of inventory" metric.
Suburbs a Mile Too Far For Some - WSJ.com
http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB121366811790479767-5usAm6MfQy8mRM482P_N_z_VZQw_20090617.html?mod=rss_free
Buying or renting, my vote is for downtown DC even at a reasonable price premium, plus Alexandria and Arlington as alternate choices if my job is there and/or I REALLY need the space, and if those locations are priced at a non-trivial DISCOUNT from downtown.
I lived in Alexandria for 6 years and then owned a condo in DC for five; I would MUCH rather have the walking/biking/metro commute, the dozen restaurants within one block, groceries delivered to my kitchen door, the variety of events in the neighborhood, and the access to biking routes going all compass directions, than to ever go back to a car-based lifestyle just so I can have a big sqft place to have to buy CRAP for, plus a yard to take care of!
Now, if I had a REASON to need the space--e.g. KIDS--then I'd probably end up pushing out to somewhere within the beltway. (I was car-bound in Boston for 9 years, and lived about halfway out to the beltway for most of those years.)
Gas prices are part of it, but the other is just an increase in consumer preference for walkable urban areas.
Yea... but look at the surplus of condos... everywhere!
Here is what I'm seeing.
When I was single: apartment 'near it all.'
Now that my family is growing: a yard close enough to a park/school.
But my parents generation: Moving out to quiet *large* condos or managed communities in small cities, but with units close to amenities.
So I think this is demographically motivated. We have a huge fraction of the population that is done with multi-floor living. We also have a Generation Y who does seem to like "urban hip" (but can only afford so much).
So for me it will be suburb with a possible vacation townhouse. (It all depends on how this market does versus my preictions.) ;)
Got Popcorn?
Neil
How many of you share my impossible dream of wanting a short commute, a house with a few big rooms rather than more little ones, walkable neighborhood close to cultural attractions, grocery, etc., low crime (if you want a scare, look at the crime maps for the District - even the "nice" neighborhoods) AND a nice yard both for gardening and to keep from having to share walls, floors, etc., with inconsiderate people? This combination is not available at any price in this area :-)!
Falls Church...I've been here for years, the schools are great, and it still has a small town feel. If i didn't care about moving my kids away from their friends and switching schools, Fairfax (Great Falls) would be my first choice.
Probably Arlington or OT Alex in my BWK days (Before Wife and Kids).
hog
'None of the above'
If I had my druthers, it would be a college town somewhere. Eugene seems nice. Maybe Athens, or Lawrence, or Chapel Hill. Austin still might be cool. Maybe Columbus.
I was unimpressed by Charlottesville during my one visit.
Ace,
Vint Hill?
One thing I like about the town of Warrenton is people aren't afraid to put large strips of vegetable gardens right in their front yards (most HOA's would have a fit, but the town doesn't seem to mind). Of course, the water bills can be high for those same gardens, depending if you're on county septic, too.
I couldn't agree more about the large rooms. Builders love to do "four over four" in Northern VA, and it's blah to me. One nice thing about this market is that builders are coming up with more livable floor plans because they actually have to work at selling houses.
ace said... This combination is not available at any price in this area :-)!
I think my ideal combination of things I'd love to have is probably not available anywhere at all. I've lived all over the world and every place I go there are things that are unique and that I miss terribly when I go. And there are things which I hate. The things I hate aren't the same in each place, but they're universal things that I can find pretty much any place if I look hard enough! ;>)
Novawatcher, I grew up in college towns. Ann Arbor is my favorite. It gets all the best cultural stuff, since Detroit is close enough to make it an easy side trip for groups on tour and it's got a great old campus in the middle of a very walkable town center. The down side? Nobody wants to leave, so you're competing with Ph.D.'s for every job posting from rocket scientist down to mailroom assistant. Of course if you want to set up your own business, that becomes a huge plus!
"I would MUCH rather have the walking/biking/metro commute, the dozen restaurants within one block, groceries delivered to my kitchen door, the variety of events in the neighborhood, and the access to biking routes going all compass directions, than to ever go back to a car-based lifestyle just so I can have a big sqft place to have to buy CRAP for, plus a yard to take care of!"
Urban living is such a major change in ones lifestyle - and its not the same if you just visit from time to time. Is only when you live it that you either love it or hate it. For me, a child of the suburbs, urban living wasnt even an option - until I met my significant other who lived in close...
Now, 5 years later I absolutely LOVE it. 10 minute commute - 5 weeks on a tank of gas - 50+ restaruants & shops within walking distance - only a handful of which are chains - magnificent architecture, close to all sorts of cultural events - fantastic.
The next poll should be, "Where Do You Actually Live".....then we can run some interesting cross-tabs :)
Harriet, Vint Hill looks beautiful but doesn't meet my short commute standard (I currently commute to DC in 20 minutes). That's why the dream is impossible! I agree with you about the builders and hope this is a long term trend.
Sarah, I agree about the benefits of traveling to other cities and enjoying the diversity.
If the DC area could put together the $ and the will to make its Metro system as comprehensive as those in Paris and other European cities, for example, it would solve many problems and create many more desirable communities.
I live near dulles but i also work right near dulles, i drive on average 6000 miles per year. I used to work in the city and put about 28,000 miles per year on my car. I would have moved closer to work, but rather, I actively seeked a job close to home, no more than 10 mile radius. maybe i'm lucky i found one, but it only took a few months of searching.
"Ace said...
Harriet, Vint Hill looks beautiful but doesn't meet my short commute standard (I currently commute to DC in 20 minutes). That's why the dream is impossible!"
Ace - Del Ray???
http://www.weta.org/community/neighborhoods/delray/
the anonymous,
I like Del Ray and it does have a lot of the things on my "wish list." It will be interesting to see what happens to prices over the next few years there. What's your prediction?
"Ace said...
the anonymous,
I like Del Ray and it does have a lot of the things on my "wish list." It will be interesting to see what happens to prices over the next few years there. What's your prediction?"
If I had to guess, I would say 10% down then flat, rising again some time after 2013. That and $4.00 will get you a cup of coffee!
"If I had to guess, I would say 10% down then flat, rising again some time after 2013. That and $4.00 will get you a cup of coffee!"
Unless I am stopping at the Dulles gas station for that 99 cent cup...:-)
Here's CRT's Wall Street Journal article.
As for Harriet's question. I'm here because the work is here.
When circumstances change, I'd probably move out of the area. Maybe get a place on the water.
I live in a college town - Charlottesville - actually, I used to; I moved to the very rural countryside a year ago. I now live in a production agricultural area - not exurb sprawl. I like that.
However, I've often thought of moving up there for work, and had family who lived on Foxhall for about twenty years; I visited them off and on throughout and lived there for about six months. I can say without a doubt I'd pick DC. The "urban" lifestyle part - restaurants, cultural events, easy mass-transit.
My father is from Arlington (left in the late 50s), and if I had children, I'd likely choose Arlington or Alexandria for the public schools.
The college-town thing is very nice; I like the way C'ville compares, but Raleigh and Boulder were also quite nice. I've never been to Ann Arbor. It is nice enough here, that I've never really been motivated to leave, and most of the folks I grew up with here left, and then moved back, in their 30s. Most were fleeing large Urban centers (Chicago, Atlanta, NYC, DC). I spent a great deal of time growing up at my grandparents (lived with them off and on) on a working farm (650+ acres) here in Central VA - I have moved to a similar place, though I'm not a farmer.
NovaWatcher - if you only saw the north side of C'ville, you saw the worst of our area - it is schlocked-up sprawl, just like NoVa.
Novawatcher, if you like small college towns, Bloomington, IN is one of the best. It is absolutely beautiful.
Columbus isn't really a "college town" (if that means that the culture is largely influenced by the university) because it has > 1 million people in the metro area. The university, which is huge, is an important factor there, but so are the banking and insurance industries, the HQ'd fast food industries, and the Limited and all its subsidiaries. But you still might like it, especially the relatively good salaries relative to the cost of living - and it's the quintessential "good place to raise a family."
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