7730 AMHERST DR
MANASSAS, VA 20111
List Price: $149,900
Prior Sale: $405,000 9/26/2005
Listing Date: 12/12/07
-63.0%
9518 LOMOND DR
MANASSAS, VA 20109
List Price: $170,000
Prior Sale: $456,000 8/17/2006
Listing Date: 12/11/07
-62.7%
912 HOPTON RD
WOODBRIDGE, VA 22191
List Price: $178,500
Prior Sale: $365,000 6/29/2006
Listing Date: 12/12/07
-51.1%
1303 OREGON AVE
WOODBRIDGE, VA 22191
List Price: $185,000
Prior Sale: $364,000 5/2/2006
Listing Date: 12/14/07
-49.2%
14322 BIRCHDALE AVE
WOODBRIDGE, VA 22193
List Price: $185,000
Prior Sale: $362,000 4/27/2006
Listing Date: 12/13/07
-48.9%
1482 ARKANSAS CT
WOODBRIDGE, VA 22191
List Price: $179,900
Prior Sale: $350,000 8/02/2005
Listing Date: 12/10/07
-48.6%
9611 NORFOLK ST
MANASSAS, VA 20109
List Price: $224,900
Prior Sale: $430,000 7/19/2005
Listing Date: 12/12/07
-47.7%
(See "Same-House Sales" sidebar for more)
Monday, December 17, 2007
Prince William County -- On the Market
Posted by Harriet at 11:09 PM
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FBI investigates Flippers in Northern Virginia (Washington Post, registration may be required)
"FBI Probes Virginia Mortgage Scam
Townhouses Bought and Sold for Big Profits as Market Was Cooling
By Allan Lengel
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, December 18, 2007; Page A01
The FBI this month launched a mortgage fraud task force, gathering federal prosecutors and law enforcement officials from Prince William, Loudoun and Fairfax counties to map out a strategy to tackle the issue region-wide. One of the federal investigations is centered on Rippon Landing, according to Steve Durst, a U.S. Postal Inspection Service spokesman for the D.C. division, whose agency investigates mortgage fraud because it involves use of the mail. "
"H.T. Thompson, who was renting one of the Rippon Landing townhouses, began receiving foreclosure notices addressed to the owner several months after moving in. "I said to my husband, 'This house is about to go into foreclosure.' " It did, and her family recently was forced to move. "It has disrupted our whole life," she said."
"Another investor, Wayne A. Lee, bought four townhouses in the subdivision in late 2006 for $570,000 and a fifth for $580,000. Two of those properties were purchased from Zak Ahmadzada, who paid $418,550 and $426,700 just months before, according to land records."
"Today, three of Lee's homes are in foreclosure and listed for sale for less than $350,000. Lee declined comment Friday on the advice of his lawyer. "
"Damion Coates and his fiancee moved from Florida to Rippon Landing in March. Every month, Coates said, he deposited his $1,700 rent into a Wachovia bank account under the name of owner Jose Medrano."
"Coates said he accidentally opened a letter addressed to Medrano. It said the property was in foreclosure and would be auctioned Nov. 7. He decided to move."
Flippers, Faux appraisals, Renters forced to move, mail fraud!
Every real estate nightmare come true.
The flippers were the root of the problem in this area, not people who couldent afford a home. And the builders are partially to blame for selling to them.
kh,
Thanks -- that one definitely needs a post. I've seen Wayne Lee's name on a number of the properties that fit my criteria (short sales) but I haven't posted any because they were so obviously above market price at the time.
I was waiting for a story to come out on some of this.
The flippers were a problem but I wouldn't say they were the root problem.
The flippers didn't become a big issue until the market was already going nuts.
They all tried to pile on in the last couple years when everyone thought you couldn't lose and "owning" real estate was winning the lottery...
I hope the various housing related tv channels continue to produce those house flipping shows and do plenty of follow-ups on how they turn out.
Well those flippers do massive renovations.
The flippers around here just buy pre-construction and sell it for more when its built.
You can tell which ones they are in the listings. No furniture, brand new condition, and always completely devoid of options.
7730 AMHERST DR
MANASSAS, VA 20111
Description
Great potential! 3 bedroom rambler on a quarter acre lot. Lender owned home, sold "as is." check out this great lot and location. Fixer upper, handyman special. Call for more details. Financed offers will need pre-approval from COUNTRYWIDE home loans. Ask about their renovation loans!
"Well those flippers do massive renovations."
Some of them do...
I don't have anything against people who buy and fix up homes for resale. The issue I have with those shows is that in many cases the "upgrades" they make are extremely superficial and poorly done.(not to mention planned)
Cheap cabinents made out of glorified cardboard going into "million dollar" houses... one piece plastic showers bought from home depot... bottom of the line "stainless steel" appliances...
The phrase "putting lipstick on a pig" comes to mind.
I actually enjoy the shows where they do a good job and completely renovate a house. New windows and insulation, custom cabinets made from quality materials, real tile work in the bathroom and kitchen, an improved floor plan, new heater/airconditioner, quality appliances...
Leroy said...
""Well those flippers do massive renovations."
Some of them do..."
For once I can fully agree with Leroy. When I was looking for my current home I came across a house that needed massive renovations. I did the numbers and realized that the renovations it needed plus the cost of the asking price would bring the cost of the house to up to about $100,000 more than what a similar renovated version of that house would cost. I researched the sales history of that house and learned that it had been bought the month prior for $100,000 less than what it was now being resold for ... And NO renovations had been done! When I mentioned it to my real estate agent and he acknowledged that the place was owned by another real estate agent who had bought it as an "investment" ...
manassas is getting killed huh? those top 2 discounts actually look ok, on paper. they have like a park/stream in the back, need major work obviously, but it's exciting to see something that you can put 20% down on and have a payment under $700. or i could almost pay cash for...
Uhh Lance, follow the conversation please.
I was specifically talking about how the TV SHOW flippers do renovations, while the flippers around here simply resell the same property.
So you actually agree with me, not Leroy.
Harriet, I think you do an amazing job with this blog, but I have a request.
Can you seperate Manassas entries out from the rest of PWC? I know that Manassas is technically a part of PWC, but it's also an independant city, and past history, and certainly the current situation shows that the real estate markets are wildly different. Yes, PWC is tanking, and yes Manassas is tanking, but they're both going down in different ways. Manassas is just utterly crumbling, while the rest of PWC seems to be mostly shattering at the edges and holding the middle.
I realize that's probably a tall request, given data sources, but it would be useful, at least to me.
I don't think anyone realizes just how bad Manassas is right now. My husband and I are renting, and have been watching the market very, very closely for about a year, and we simply cannot believe the new stories we discover every day. It is absolutely typical for houses that were purchased in the upper $500s-lower $600s a year and a half ago to be asking around $400,000 now, and not getting any offers. Some time when I have the kids in bed, I will have to offer some more specific examples, but there are not words to contain the dramatic nature of the situation here...Bristow is similar...
My in-laws just bought in Manassas, a fairly large house that was in foreclosure, needed a lot of 'sweat equity' to be worth even what they paid for it (which was was way less than the previous owner had...)
There's almost certainly some fraud involved here too, because the bank reported the sale price as the 'assessed price' not the actual sales price, which was about $150,000 less. In-laws are fairly clueless about it though and don't care about the (to me) apparent fraud. The payments are OK by them and taxes are bound to be on their way down regardless.
When I drive over to visit, I see dozens of vehicles for sale. I see fewer house for sale signs now than I did a few weeks ago, but I don't think any of them sold. I think the market just sort of paused. When it starts up again it's going to be ugly.
Even if you find a dream house in Manassas, I wouldn't buy it. Not right now.
Tabitha - why are you surprised? Who really wants to live in Manassas? Certainly not people who can afford a 600k house, and probably not anyone who can afford a 400k house. You can get a decent house in that range inside the beltway.
Those prices need to drop down to the 175-225k range to attract the type of buyers who live out there.
"Tabitha - why are you surprised? Who really wants to live in Manassas? Certainly not people who can afford a 600k house, and probably not anyone who can afford a 400k house. You can get a decent house in that range inside the beltway.
Those prices need to drop down to the 175-225k range to attract the type of buyers who live out there."
How did I know someone would make a post like this...
This is more of the standard misconception that somehow everyone in Manassas drives in to DC every morning and would prefer to live near DC.
Certainly some do... but large numbers don't and want to live near their workplace. Even among the commuters I suspect most commute to areas relatively near at hand in other parts of Northern Virginia where most of the metro area's economic activity takes place.
I never said everyone from Manassas commutes to DC. Probably just the ones who can afford a 600k house, the rest likely work much closer to their home.
What I am saying is that to make homes for people who live and work near and in Manassas, they need to price them a lot differently than they currently are.
"What I am saying is that to make homes for people who live and work near and in Manassas, they need to price them a lot differently than they currently are."
You could say that about the whole area...
Here are a few examples: 11411 Huntsman, asking $369,900, previous owners had been asking $649,000 before foreclosure, bank took over at $582,000 in July. 10930 A P Hill, asking $550,000, paid $764,080 in 9/2005 for 7BR/5BA. 8016 Station, asking $399,000, paid $589,900 9/2005. 9116 Mulder asking $300,000, paid $495,000 12/2005, 5BR/3.5BA. 8139 Blandsford, asking $425,000, paid $600,000 in 7/2005. Here's one that sold this summer, for $575,000, when the previous owner paid $950,000 in 4/2006: 9265 Sumner Lake. Some really nice neighborhoods that have a lot of these houses include Blooms Crossing in Manassas Park, New Bristow Village in Bristow (or is it Nokesville?), and Sumner Lake in Manassas. Many properties are off the market now, but not because they sold, so when they come back in the spring, probably as new foreclosures, things will be worse.
Side note: we have our own reasons for staying in Manassas, such as family and a great homeschooling community. But we are trying to be careful about buying, so we do not put our family in a precarious financial position.
Tabitha,
Thank you for sharing those examples. It sounds like you're doing a thorough job researching the area you'd like to live in, which will help you breathe easy when you make a decision.
We drove "in" to Manassas proper today and enjoyed the pretty architecture in the older neighborhoods. I haven't visited but I've heard positive comments about Morris Farm and Victory Lakes in Gainesville. I like some of Miller & Smith's house designs at Victory Lakes.
Harriet, we like Victory Lakes, and noticed there are far fewer troubled homeowners in that neighborhood than in others. But it is still rather expensive, and farther away from the VRE. I am getting rather obsessive with my research--my husband says I should package it and sell it. The last time we owned a house, we were almost ruined when it took forever to sell, so we are proceeding with great paranoia. Thanks for all the great advice here. (Oh, here is another example I just saw today: 8298 Shimmering Rock, asking $570,000, paid $808,825 12/2005)
I currently live in Victory lakes in bristow and would have to say that foreclosers haven't really made an impact yet. It's fairly upscale and foreclosures appear to be hitting more of the mid lower range of house. There are close to 1000 homes/townhomes in this development and so far only about a half dozen are in foreclosure. Houses are still selling for over 500k, though alot slower. Now Manassas, 3 miles east is a totally different story. Just check out yahoo real estate and do a search for foreclosures, 89 in Bristow (ya its smaller) but almost 600 in Manassas. Manassas is going to look like a DMZ in another year or so. I'm glad I moved out 8 months ago.
Doug the issue with living inside the beltway is that you can't get a 4 bedroom house with a backyard for under 800 k. That might change soon, but I wanted something built within the last 4 years.
Good luck to us all.
"Doug the issue with living inside the beltway is that you can't get a 4 bedroom house with a backyard for under 800 k. "
Yes, that is true of Alexandria. In my zipcode, those numbers are about right.
I settled for a lot less, am older 2/1 SFH. These are about $500K today.
This is not for everyone but is the right balance of size, cost, convenience for me.
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