From the Fauquier Times-Democrat today:
The depressed housing market has claimed another Fauquier subdivision proposal - the 75-home Goodland East project near New Baltimore.
Mega-builder Brookfield Washington LLC withdrew its rezoning application for the project, because of the poor economy, "challenges" posed by Fauquier's land-use review process and sewer capacity issues.
Brookfield Washington's action comes just two months after Dallas,Texas-based Centex Homes stunned local officials by scuttling its 359-home Freedom Place plan at Bealeton.
Centex attributed the move to "the severe and broad market downturn."
. . .
Brookfield Washington agreed to pay Fauquier about $50,000 per dwelling requested.
His client agreed to the $50,000-per-lot donation during a robust residential market, [Brookfield's lawyer] Fallon said. Because of the housing downturn, "the proffers won't work" financially, he said.
The proffer package is untenable partly because of declining property values, Fallon said.
Eighteen months ago, a half-acre to one-acre lot fetched $220,000, according to the zoning lawyer. "You can't get $120,000 for a lot now."
26 comments:
Who would pay 120k for a lot in Fauquier county anyhow? Try 20k to live out there in the sticks.
Wow. That's way out there.
Well, you get credit for looking it up on a map before deciding where it is...
and yeah, it is on the edge of things. It is amazing to me that land prices ever reached those levels in an area like that.
That is one of the more interesting aspects of this bubble to me.
Whether it is terrible neighborhoods where even the most crummy tear-down house was asking $500k or slapped together mcmansions with cows across the street asking $500k it is just nuts.
Lots
i think i'd live in old baltimore before new baltimore! insane
however, is it really that far out? it's just past gainesville and about as far as leesburg..
And where do you live Doug?
Arlington
I have lived in Arlington, Fairfax, Alexandria and recently moved to Warrenton in Fauquier County from southern Maryland. Growing up in southern Va and having lived in the DC area since graduating college, I will share some things with you:
1. Maryland is horrible, especially southern Maryland.
2. Arlington, Alexandria nd Fairfax offer all the shopping and restaurants but crime has greatly increased in those areas since I lived there and the congestion is horrible. Some areas remind me of a third world country now.
3. Fauquier County is a very genteel area, very much Virginia- not northern Virginia. The people here are wonderful--overall very educated and the area is absolutely gorgeous. There are quaint shops and restaurants and when you walk down the street, you actually know people. There is incredible wealth here. The estates and farms in this area are like something out of a painting, especially in Northern Fauquier near The Plains and Middleburg. Yes, there are the cookie cutter developments here like everywhere else that I want nothing to do with. But trust me, to find a beautiful piece of property here I would gladly pay 300K--I am renting right now until I find the right thing. Would I ever move back inside the beltway? Not on your life.
Very well said, Bay400,
I think the only thing you missed were the wineries and horse events. I've been a northern Fauquier resident since the 90's. I also moved out from inside the beltway( Alexandria) where I grew up, and where you couldn't pay me to live again.
This is, for the most part, a breathtakingly beautiful county
(Remington and Bealeton sold out to developers years ago) with low crime, good public schools, a sense of community, and I'm glad as hell to see the cookie cutter production builders pull out.
As for those who refer to us as in the boonies or sticks- they're welcome to keep their insane traffic, their big box stores and chain restaurants and living like rats in a race.
This is a little slice of heaven.
Good luck in your search. Land prices are dropping, although I admit it's humorous to see the northern VA speculators who bought
land out here not be able to get what they're asking for it. They drove up land prices and taxes. I couldn't care less if they lose their shirts.
CS
bay400 said...
I have lived in Arlington, Fairfax, Alexandria and recently moved to Warrenton in Fauquier County from southern Maryland. Growing up in southern Va and having lived in the DC area since graduating college, I will share some things with you:
1. Maryland is horrible, especially southern Maryland.
2. Arlington, Alexandria nd Fairfax offer all the shopping and restaurants but crime has greatly increased in those areas since I lived there and the congestion is horrible. Some areas remind me of a third world country now.
3.Fauquier County is a very genteel area, very much Virginia- not northern Virginia. The people here are wonderful--overall very educated and the area is absolutely gorgeous. There are quaint shops and restaurants and when you walk down the street, you actually know people. There is incredible wealth here. The estates and farms in this area are like something out of a painting, especially in Northern Fauquier near The Plains and Middleburg. Yes, there are the cookie cutter developments here like everywhere else that I want nothing to do with. But trust me, to find a beautiful piece of property here I would gladly pay 300K--I am renting right now until I find the right thing. Would I ever move back inside the beltway? Not on your life.
Thanks CS. I did leave out the fabulous wineries and how could I forget the Gold Cup, polo matches and the fabulous fourth of July fireworks at Great Meadow? (every bit as spectacular as the fireworks on the Mall in DC) Also the beautiful orchards where I pick my own fruit and the availability of organic produce, the farmers market....I could go on and on.
My only regret about moving to Warrenton is that I didn't move here sooner. It absolutely is a slice of heaven. And I love living in town so much that I would love to buy a house right here in Old Town or possibly Bellevue Farms(If you know anyone who is thinking about selling, please let me know!) Glad to hear from someone who lives this place as much as I do.
"they're welcome to keep their insane traffic, their big box stores and chain restaurants and living like rats in a race."
Odd, "insane traffic, big box stores, chain restaurants" is the other name for "Warrenton, 29, 211".
...especially traffic.
While our not so charming main drag and( pass through)Rt 29 is more heavily trafficked now with Culpeper commuters passing through, I've been on that road frequently in both morning and evening rush, and it doesn't begin to approach the level of insanity that inside the beltway does.
I still visit my Dad and stepmom in Alexandria. The place is barely recognizeable as the area I grew up in. On a Saturday it can take as long as 20 minutes to get through the light at the subdivision, just to get to the grocery store. Then there's the parking lot fight, the grocery store cart fight, the long lines and the ever present congestion. Love my parents but can't wait to get the hell out of there.
I can live without our limited big box stores and chain restaurants. Lived just fine without them and don't patronize them now that they're here. We don't celebrate them as improvements or "anchor stores for revitilization " No revitalization needed here. We fight them. Some times we win, and sometimes we lose.
Next time you're out this way hang a right on Rt 211 west. About 6 miles outside town, you go down a hill and then up up one. On either side are lush green pastures, board fenced with horses peacefully grazing. In front of you are the mountains. That view never fails to take my breath away, and to me it captures the essence of the county.
We're actually pretty welcoming to the folks who come to visit out because apparently they don't have leaves on the trees in their limited yard space that are worth viewing during peak fall foliage and because their kids have never seen a horse or cow unless it was in a picture in a book.
However, by all means, feel free to keep telling people how bad our traffic is and how we're out in the boonies.
I'm hoping we have a shot at remaining largely undiscovered. And may all the crappy production builders set their sights on inside the beltway now. Perhaps they can build more boxes in the sky.. errr.... condos.
kh said...
"they're welcome to keep their insane traffic, their big box stores and chain restaurants and living like rats in a race."
Odd, "insane traffic, big box stores, chain restaurants" is the other name for "Warrenton, 29, 211".
...especially traffic.
"I still visit my Dad and stepmom in Alexandria. The place is barely recognizeable as the area I grew up in. On a Saturday it can take as long as 20 minutes to get through the light at the subdivision, just to get to the grocery store."
Where's that? Out by the beltway? I'm near Beverly Hills and Del Ray. We don't have subdivisions around here.
"Next time you're out this way hang a right on Rt 211 west. About 6 miles outside town, you go down a hill and then up up one. On either side are lush green pastures, board fenced with horses peacefully grazing."
Thanks. I know a guy with a 200 acre farm in Clark County. It's beautiful there too but so far out. I make it to his place about every 5 or so years.
Funny thing is that I work with people in DC who commute in from beyond that guy's farm.
bay400 said...
Thanks CS. I did leave out the fabulous wineries and how could I forget the Gold Cup, polo matches and the fabulous fourth of July fireworks at Great Meadow? (every bit as spectacular as the fireworks on the Mall in DC) Also the beautiful orchards where I pick my own fruit and the availability of organic produce, the farmers market....I could go on and on.
********************
You're welcome and welcome to the area, Bay400! Glad you already love it as much as many of the rest of us do. The orchards and organic produce are a definite plus. My favorite winery is Pearmans, although a lot of people like Naked Mountain and Oasis.
Gold Cup is always phenominal, spring or fall.
Old Town is charming and Belleview Farms is also beautiful. That became a desirable subdivision about 10 years ago due to the acreage. A lot of people turned their places into horse farms. I don't know if there is currently anything on the market in either place. If I hear of something coming up for sale, there or in Old Town though, I'll be glad to post and let you know.
If you're looking at houses online, if you see anything that has "metes and bounds" in the subdivision spot, that simply means that it's in the county. If you live in an incorporated town here, you pay both town and county taxes. The zoning in northern Fauquier, btw, is strict enough to cover most of the things that an HOA would without the expense or aggravation of an HOA.
I live outside of town.
First night Warrenton is worth attending over the holiday season, btw, as is the summer Bluemont concert series (in the summer.)
And if you haven't tried it yet, the crab soup at Rene's on Third St. in Old Town is the best I've ever had. Only available on Fridays, and it runs out by about 1:30 so it's a good idea to hit the place by noon.
Again, best wishes again in your house search!
CS
KH, if you must be ignorant, please be ignorant and polite.
kh,
There's much more to Warrenton than the Route 29 Broadview Avenue strip. That's for the convenience of the tourists and passers-through. The locals I know head to Old Town for dining and coffee. I suspect you've never been anywhere in Warrenton except Route 29.
I don't understand about the "way out there". It's "way out there" from your house (holy is its name), but it's not far from highly-skilled military and technical jobs in the new Vint Hill Complex. Did you know the Library of Congress has a new facility under Pony Mountain in Culpeper? These are just a few examples. I don't personally know anyone who commutes to D.C. from Fauquier. There are plenty of jobs in between.
"KH, if you must be ignorant, please be ignorant and polite."
What are you talking about?
"There are plenty of jobs in between."
The people I work with tell me that the traffic starts before 5:00 AM and streams toward the city, that's DC and not some other city.
I'm certain that there are employers and jobs, "way out there". There are also people who don't need jobs, the guy on the 200 acre farm is a semi-retired multimillionaire who tends to his global business interests from his home.
Reports of fine dining notwithstanding, the reality is that everyone I know, from "way out there", says Sheetz is excellent and is surpassed only by the "Golden Corral".
As for entertainment, I missed the Apple Festival again.
"What are you talking about?"
This is what I am talking about...
"Reports of fine dining notwithstanding, the reality is that everyone I know, from "way out there", says Sheetz is excellent and is surpassed only by the "Golden Corral"."
The "reality is" huh?
"Everyone you know" ...
You are ignorant. You don't have a clue what you are talking about and are just making a fool of yourself.
Leroy said...
"What are you talking about?"
This is what I am talking about...
(KH wrote)
"Reports of fine dining notwithstanding, the reality is that everyone I know, from "way out there", says Sheetz is excellent and is surpassed only by the "Golden Corral"."
The "reality is" huh?
"Everyone you know" ...
You are ignorant. You don't have a clue what you are talking about and are just making a fool of yourself."
********
Thanks, Leroy. There is no Golden Corral in Warrenton. Not even on the off-the-Interstate strip, Rt. 29. Hasn't been as long as I've lived here. Too bad *everyone KH knows* didn't tell him/her about Claire's at the Depot, Molly's Irish Pub, Napolean's, Faang Thai,
Mojitas and Tapas (Cuban/Spanish), Hunter's Head Inn, (organic fare, much of it raised at Cisco System's co-founder and Hunter's Head Inn founder Sandy Lerner's Ayrshire Farm(in Upperville)Frogs and Friends (French and in the town of Marshall) or any of the rest of our local eateries.
I don't think that there's anything that can be said to someone who obviously believes that there's no enjoyable life outside of his/her little sphere.
Harriet, I personally don't know anyone who commutes to DC either, but I'm sure KH knows better than those of us who live here ;) As an aside, I really like It's about Thyme in Culpeper too.
Thank you for your interesting blog.
CS
CS--
Thanks for mentioning some of my favorite restaurants. These people from inside the beltway make me chuckle--If they only knew about some of the wealth in this area--I don't want to even mention the famous names of some of the owners of these estates here so as not to compromise their privacy. The other indicator here of the level of education is the number of private schools in this area-many excellent choices--My son goes to school with children of a number of prominent people who shall also remain nameless.
Places like Arlington have certain advantages, but having been there and done that, nothing compares overall to the quality of life in Warrenton and northern Fauquier County.
"You are ignorant. You don't have a clue what you are talking about and are just making a fool of yourself."
Actually, people get that defensive for a reason.
Plunging land prices in the boonies? Maybe it's not so great in the hinterlands.
As I said, I know folks who live out there (they say it's great, which is their prerogative).
Which is fine but, please, the Virginia Hunt Country Travelogue was a bit much. Not everyone is a multimillionaire. Some folks have to work.
"Actually, people get that defensive for a reason."
This seems to be becoming something of a pattern.
You say something especially ignorant about some place you don't know the first thing about and when you get called on it you get your feelings hurt.
If you don't like looking foolish, try to confine your commentary to things you understand.
In general, lecturing the locals on what their neighborhood is like without so much as visiting it yourself is probably not a good idea.
Think about that.
"Plunging land prices in the boonies? Maybe it's not so great in the hinterlands."
You really must be confused if you think falling land prices bother me in the slightest.
Falling land prices are a good thing and I am quite pleased to see that the economic realities are asserting themselves once more.
"As I said, I know folks who live out there (they say it's great, which is their prerogative)."
Again, you "know people?" How much time have you spent out there yourself?
So far your commentary has been woefully poorly informed.
If you like your little suburban neighborhood then that is great. I am glad you are happy with where you live. I don't understand how that drives you to attack different areas that you know little to nothing about however.
You aren't doing yourself any good trying to claim that all Warrenton has to offer is Sheetz and Golden Corral.(Which as someone else has already pointed out doesn't even have a location in Warrenton...)
The people that are actually familiar with the area just laugh at you. What good does it do you to make things up?
What if I told you all Alexandria has to offer is McDonalds and Starbucks?(Hey, at least I picked a couple restaurants that actually exist in Alexandria...)
Would that bother you or would you simply conclude that I didn't know what I was talking about?
Hence, ignorant...
http://tinyurl.com/32sho6
"Which is fine but, please, the Virginia Hunt Country Travelogue was a bit much. Not everyone is a multimillionaire. Some folks have to work."
I am not sure where you are going with this. Fine dining can be expensive. If you can't afford it then you should probably watch your budget.
If you are interested in broadening your horizons a bit you should make a trip out when your schedule and funds permit sometime.
"Again, you "know people?" How much time have you spent out there yourself? "
I said, it's too far to get out more than a few times a decade. I talk to them on the phone.
I mentioned Clark County, which is not Fauquier but anything beyond 10 miles is "out there" to me.
This rural pride is fine but, please, for every problem in city (not suburban, I live in the city, like Lance, but another city) there's a complementary problem out there.
I should not have to mention wells, water softeners, trees falling, animals stalking (there's a bear on the porch) or dropping dead (there's a dead deer out back and something is eating it), septic fields, week long power outages, 2 foot snow falls with 3 foot drifts (I'm trapped again), mowing a 5 acre yard, and the other fun country experiences that my friends tell me about.
I sympathize with them, of course.
kh,
I agree with you that commuting such long hours every day makes little sense. I can't imagine the toll it takes on one's health. I used to commute from Reston to NW DC (and thought that was too long!)so I got a new job in Fairfax that turned out to pay better anyway.
The point of the original post was that prices were indeed absurd for tract homes in Fauquier. When we were thinking of buying in 2005, we couldn't find anything in Warrenton with 4 bedrooms for less than 550K. (This month Pulte cleared out the last of their fully finished new spec homes in Warrenton for 370K, and they're selling empty lots in the White's Mill development).
Warrenton did a good job planning around "service districts" to maintain the integrity of the rural farmland. The White's Mill subdivision I mentioned earlier has miles of walking trails, and the ambitious can hoof it to Old Town. It's not your typical suburban environment which is why the locals defend it so much.
"...point of the original post was that prices were indeed absurd for tract homes in Fauquier."
I figure, they were selling to city folk who didn't know better. Many of us don't.
My friend on 200 acres in Clark County loves his quiet rural estate life, and he does have an estate, unlike these 5 acre estate-like tract places. He loves it, until something goes wrong, then I hear about it.
Fences seem to be a problem. Machinery too. Then there's the cost of fuel to run the lawn mowers that he calls tractors.
I have a 15 minute walk to several dozen restaurants. He has a 15 minute drive, it's a fair piece, I reckon.
Maybe his wife knows how to cook. ;-)
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